2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[Jolle]

More fuel is not an option => even more weight and RB18 is too heavy. Probably results into (less ?) similar issues. My guess is they need something to fix the pressure and or get rid of the vapour at high(er) fuel temps. Specially when the engine went back to lower power mode (e.g. at a safety car situation).

This article might help: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vapor_lock

They might need to change the cooling on the fuel system, but that might add more weight to the RB18.
Keeping the temperature of the fuel within a certain margin to avoid a fuel lock shouldn't be too difficult for Red Bull to solve, but it might cost performance. We'll find out at the weekend I guess.

Isn’t fuel cooling not legal?

to cool the fuel down significantly is illegal. But like any system in the car, it has to be cooled or bolted on somewhere where it's less hot.

[dans79]

More fuel is not an option => even more weight and RB18 is too heavy. Probably results into (less ?) similar issues. My guess is they need something to fix the pressure and or get rid of the vapour at high(er) fuel temps. Specially when the engine went back to lower power mode (e.g. at a safety car situation).

This article might help: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vapor_lock

They might need to change the cooling on the fuel system, but that might add more weight to the RB18.
Keeping the temperature of the fuel within a certain margin to avoid a fuel lock shouldn't be too difficult for Red Bull to solve, but it might cost performance. We'll find out at the weekend I guess.

Isn’t fuel cooling not legal?

yes, it's illegal. The only thing the teams can do is cool the fuel before it goes into the car, and even that has a limit.

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files ... -03-17.pdf

6.4.2
No fuel intended for immediate use in a car may be more than ten degrees centigrade below
ambient temperature. When assessing compliance, the ambient temperature will be that
recorded by the FIA appointed weather service provider one hour before any practice session
or two hours before the race. This information will also be displayed on the timing monitors.
The temperature of fuel intended for use in a car must be measured via an FIA approved and
sealed sensor.

6.4.3
The use of any device on board the car to decrease the temperature of the fuel is forbidden.

[Baulz]

Is there enough time left to come up with a solution other than to carry more fuel for this weekend?

[Big Tea]

They might need to change the cooling on the fuel system, but that might add more weight to the RB18.
Keeping the temperature of the fuel within a certain margin to avoid a fuel lock shouldn't be too difficult for Red Bull to solve, but it might cost performance. We'll find out at the weekend I guess.

Isn’t fuel cooling not legal?

yes, it's illegal. The only thing the teams can do is cool the fuel before it goes into the car, and even that has a limit.

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files ... -03-17.pdf

6.4.2
No fuel intended for immediate use in a car may be more than ten degrees centigrade below
ambient temperature. When assessing compliance, the ambient temperature will be that
recorded by the FIA appointed weather service provider one hour before any practice session
or two hours before the race. This information will also be displayed on the timing monitors.
The temperature of fuel intended for use in a car must be measured via an FIA approved and
sealed sensor.

6.4.3
The use of any device on board the car to decrease the temperature of the fuel is forbidden.

Ten degrees centigrade below ambient temperature is not really cool, that can probably be handled by running it through a short, finned metal line which could be 100g more than the plastic one it replaces. Its not all the fuel that has to be cooled, just the spall amount going to the pump at that time.

This is ofcourse relative. After dark in a cool place or mid afternoon in the tropics wil be very different

[GoranF1]

What coused RB to run out of fuel?
Over consumption, miss calculation of consumption or mechanical failure?

[Big Tea]

What coused RB to run out of fuel?
Over consumption, miss calculation of consumption or mechanical failure?

I would assume that it would be the fuel becoming vapour rather than liquid, but Marco said 'Vacuum' ???

[dans79]

What coused RB to run out of fuel?
Over consumption, miss calculation of consumption or mechanical failure?

I would assume that it would be the fuel becoming vapour rather than liquid, but Marco said 'Vacuum' ???

I think he doesn't really know what he is talking about, And is trying to skirt around calling it vapor lock.

[Big Tea]

What coused RB to run out of fuel?
Over consumption, miss calculation of consumption or mechanical failure?

I would assume that it would be the fuel becoming vapour rather than liquid, but Marco said 'Vacuum' ???

I think he doesn't really know what he is talking about, And is trying to skirt around calling it vapor lock.

I assumed a translation error?

[TNTHead]

Is there enough time left to come up with a solution other than to carry more fuel for this weekend?

Pray that there will be no safety car...In Jeddah the odds are high in that regard so they at least need to reduce the risk of vapor lock.

[AR3-GP]

What coused RB to run out of fuel?
Over consumption, miss calculation of consumption or mechanical failure?

I would assume that it would be the fuel becoming vapour rather than liquid, but Marco said 'Vacuum' ???

I think he doesn't really know what he is talking about, And is trying to skirt around calling it vapor lock.

Probably lost in translation but vacuum and vapor lock really are two sides of the same coin unless you just want to be pedantic about it. If the fuel tank was pressurized, this would not happen.

[PlatinumZealot]

What coused RB to run out of fuel?
Over consumption, miss calculation of consumption or mechanical failure?

A fuel line design that sucked. Literally.

[yener]

What coused RB to run out of fuel?
Over consumption, miss calculation of consumption or mechanical failure?

A fuel line design that sucked. Literally.

is this confirmed? I still got some strange feeling about the "lift and coast" radio messages. Did his brakes really overheat? Or where they managing their full issue in code language?
Is there any data available for brake temp?

[Watto]

What coused RB to run out of fuel?
Over consumption, miss calculation of consumption or mechanical failure?

A fuel line design that sucked. Literally.

is this confirmed? I still got some strange feeling about the "lift and coast" radio messages. Did his brakes really overheat? Or where they managing their full issue in code language?
Is there any data available for brake temp?

From what I remember of the telecast they talked about the brake issue very early. during the first stint, so they either knew about it very early or more likely I think there were genuine brake issues too.

[Zynerji]

They might need to change the cooling on the fuel system, but that might add more weight to the RB18.
Keeping the temperature of the fuel within a certain margin to avoid a fuel lock shouldn't be too difficult for Red Bull to solve, but it might cost performance. We'll find out at the weekend I guess.

Isn’t fuel cooling not legal?

yes, it's illegal. The only thing the teams can do is cool the fuel before it goes into the car, and even that has a limit.

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files ... -03-17.pdf

6.4.2
No fuel intended for immediate use in a car may be more than ten degrees centigrade below
ambient temperature. When assessing compliance, the ambient temperature will be that
recorded by the FIA appointed weather service provider one hour before any practice session
or two hours before the race. This information will also be displayed on the timing monitors.
The temperature of fuel intended for use in a car must be measured via an FIA approved and
sealed sensor.

6.4.3
The use of any device on board the car to decrease the temperature of the fuel is forbidden.

A vortex tube, by definition, does not heat or cool a fluid (air or liquid), it separates the mixture of hot and cold molecules in a given volume.

I wonder why they don't use this type of stuff already.

[vorticism]

Ethanol blends may vaporize sooner than gasoline.

Preventing Vapor Lock with Ethanol Blending
https://www.azom.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=17736
"In automotive fuel specifications, the temperature at which a ratio of 20:1 (vapor:liquid) is attained (generally known as T(V/L) = 20) signifies the risk of the fuel to develop a vapor lock. This risk is higher in hotter climate and in higher altitude."