Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

[AR3-GP]

RedBull was the leading force behind the push to freeze PU development. For the simple reason that Honda was supposed to leave them which they have not really done as we all know now. Their argumentation was that they would have been in a disadvantageous position.

Yes they were but apparently Merc were fine with it cause they voted in favour.

Everyone voted in favor or the freeze wouldn't have passed. RB threatened to leave the sport if they didn't freeze because they felt it would have been impossible for them to compete without the engine partner to develop the engine.

One would think Merc would have used the opportunity to call RB's bluff but I think the reality is Merc wanted to spend less money and the freeze helped them do this.

[restless]

That sucks!

This is what RedBull and Honda lobbied for. Disgusting.

Care to explain why if something was lobbied for by Honda its "disgusting", but if something is lobbied for by Mercedes its fine?

[PlatinumZealot]

That sucks!

This is what RedBull and Honda lobbied for. Disgusting.

Care to explain why if something was lobbied for by Honda its "disgusting", but if something is lobbied for by Mercedes its fine?

Putting words in my mouth now, Jedi.

[McMika98]

All last 5 cars powered by Mercedes. Just how the tables gave turned. Can see some teams jumping ship next year if this continues.

[Hoffman900]

Why would you turn it up in FP3? You can't win practice.

[McMika98]

Why would you turn it up in FP3? You can't win practice.

No other teams are turning up the full wick, every1 is holding back something. Never have we seen that many Merc cars struggle in a power track, which begs the question why they are behind after basically dominating the new turbo hybrid era.

[PlatinumZealot]

Embarrassing again from the new GP2 engine suppliers, all last 5 cars powered by Mercedes. Just how the tables gave turned. Can see some teams jumping ship next year if this continues.

I'm really concerned now.

But James Allison said there is not much difference between power units!

[saviour stivala]

Embarrassing again from the new GP2 engine suppliers, all last 5 cars powered by Mercedes. Just how the tables gave turned. Can see some teams jumping ship next year if this continues.

I'm really concerned now.

But James Allison said there is not much difference between power units!

Even last year there wasn’t much difference. The problem this year brought is the change in packing order.

[Hoffman900]

Embarrassing again from the new GP2 engine suppliers, all last 5 cars powered by Mercedes. Just how the tables gave turned. Can see some teams jumping ship next year if this continues.

I'm really concerned now.

But James Allison said there is not much difference between power units!

Why?

It's FP3 of Rd2 of a 23 race season, it's basically a hardship session. The longer the rules makers want these engines to last, the less running teams will do and the less time they run cranked up.

If I'm Merc, I'm weighing what our chassis / aero guys are bringing and their confidence in getting their end sorted, and I only need to run (in the race) strong enough to finish 5th-6th while Ferrari and RedBull wear down their PU's, and I can crank it up later in the season when they're taking grid penalties and maximize points.

Let's think about it. Three PU's have to go 23 races without taking a penalty. That's 69 practice sessions, so 23 per PU. Why would you turn it up in FP3 of Rd2? Especially knowing your chassis and aero is only good for 5th-6th on the grid anyway. Mclaren and Aston clearly have way bigger problems than a PU.

I think if some of you guys ran the engine programs, you would be putting in a new PU after each session.

[mclaren_mircea]

Such a strategic error to agree that engine freeze. There is no way to make up 0.9 on the straights to Honda with the engine frozen. Totto is losing them all. Engine frozen, a Red Bull driver in a Mercedes powered car, beeing poached by other big teams.

[Dr. Acula]

If I'm Merc, I'm weighing what our chassis / aero guys are bringing and their confidence in getting their end sorted, and I only need to run (in the race) strong enough to finish 5th-6th while Ferrari and RedBull wear down their PU's, and I can crank it up later in the season when they're taking grid penalties and maximize points.

Let's think about it. Three PU's have to go 23 races without taking a penalty. That's 69 practice sessions, so 23 per PU. Why would you turn it up in FP3 of Rd2? Especially knowing your chassis and aero is only good for 5th-6th on the grid anyway. Mclaren and Aston clearly have way bigger problems than a PU.

I think if some of you guys ran the engine programs, you would be putting in a new PU after each session.

Problem with that is just the amount of points the others gain over you. As 5th you lose 15pts. compared to whoever wins a race. You will not stay in title title race long enough at this rate that you can make up the gap at the last third of the season.
If you lose just 10pts. on average compared to the top title contender every race, you are pretty much out of the fight after half the season unless an absolute miracle happens.

[_cerber1]

#AMuS Some experts believe the huge Mercedes deficit is coming from PU.

Mercedes engineer: "It's one or two tenths at most [engine]. The poor top speeds are mainly due to the higher drag"

They say the rear wing is primarily responsible for the lack of straight line speed.

[Tzk]

#AMuS Some experts believe the huge Mercedes deficit is coming from PU.

I don't believe this. At least the PU isn't the sole issue for this. Have a look at the speedtraps from Jeddah qualy. The Mercs were as fast as the Ferrari on the straights, pointing to similar drag levels. Still they lost out in every corner, pointing to a downforce deficit. So the Merc is simply inefficient, aero wise.


If we take the speed trap into account and compare RB (335.1km/h) with the Merc (327.1) that's a difference of 2.5% in drag. Now, drag scales exponentially with speed. So to get 2,5% additional speed, you'd need to overcome 5% additional dragn and thus need 5% extra power. At 1000hp that's ~50hp extra and the Mercs are still slower overall... I believe this theory is wrong. Even if the engine is a bit weaker than Honda and Ferrari, the Merc is inferior when it comes to drag and downforce.

[_cerber1]

I don't believe this. At least the PU isn't the sole issue for this. Have a look at the speedtraps from Jeddah qualy. The Mercs were as fast as the Ferrari on the straights, pointing to similar drag levels. Still they lost out in every corner, pointing to a downforce deficit. So the Merc is simply inefficient, aero wise.


If we take the speed trap into account and compare RB (335.1km/h) with the Merc (327.1) that's a difference of 2.5% in drag. Now, drag scales exponentially with speed. So to get 2,5% additional speed, you'd need to overcome 5% additional dragn and thus need 5% extra power. At 1000hp that's ~50hp extra and the Mercs are still slower overall... I believe this theory is wrong. Even if the engine is a bit weaker than Honda and Ferrari, the Merc is inferior when it comes to drag and downforce.

Well, in fact, the Mercedes engineer says this, that the motor deficit is only 0.1-0.2 seconds, everything else is on the chassis side. That is why customers do not blame their supplier.

[Dee]

My theory is high rake (high drag) vs low rake (low drag) masked how powerful the Honda engine actually was last year

And Ferrari improved