Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

[LM10]

Mercedes was the class of the field when it came to Engine, but even with diminishing returns, i find it odd that Ferrari and honda have leapfrogged Mercedes. Honda Had planned it's "big" upgrade for 2022 but brought it foward one year, Ferrari had it's big upgrade this year, same as Renault. And were does that leave Mercedes? They said the engine changed the most since 2014, yet they seem to be lacking HP. Are the rumors that the engine is running low on power true? Are Mercedes playing 4D chess and planning a ""reliability"" upgrade that boosts them to the top? Maybe they underestimated E10 fuel, who knows...

Having changed most since 2014 does not equal having gained power. It probably was a given that they changed most because we've seen the first PU rule changes since 2014.

[cheeRS]

One thing that continues to baffle me is that I find it difficult to believe that Mercs PU has suddenly gone from being the most powerful to one of the least powerful and being overtaken by Ferrari and RB in a matter of months.

We all know that the spec and rules around the PU have largely been kept the same since its inception in 2014. And we know the development curve since then has steadily increased for all manufacturers. However, as Merc themselves have admitted, finding significant gains becomes increasingly more difficult as there is nothing much left to squeeze out of it.

So for Ferrari / RB to find massive gains not only compared to an improved 2022 Merc PU in such a short space of time, let alone the gains made when compared to their own 2021 PUs is either super impressive or Merc has gone backwards.

Considering Honda threw everything into the 2021 PU, I really didn't think there was much left to gain in 2022.

I guess the only thing that might have had a bearing on this is if Ferrari/RB have managed to extract more power from the new E10 fuel and Merc perhaps not being able to do so.

Or do we believe this is all down to drag?

As far as I can see, Mercedes spent last year building a special one off engine for Hamilton to use in Brazil, Jeddah and Abu Dhabi

They did not focus on an E10 engine that would be locked in for the next four years

I can understand if you're frustrated (I am too, at Merc's performance), but you don't really believe that, do you? It's a silly thought. The top teams don't operate by the seat of their pants like that.

[Dee]

One thing that continues to baffle me is that I find it difficult to believe that Mercs PU has suddenly gone from being the most powerful to one of the least powerful and being overtaken by Ferrari and RB in a matter of months.

We all know that the spec and rules around the PU have largely been kept the same since its inception in 2014. And we know the development curve since then has steadily increased for all manufacturers. However, as Merc themselves have admitted, finding significant gains becomes increasingly more difficult as there is nothing much left to squeeze out of it.

So for Ferrari / RB to find massive gains not only compared to an improved 2022 Merc PU in such a short space of time, let alone the gains made when compared to their own 2021 PUs is either super impressive or Merc has gone backwards.

Considering Honda threw everything into the 2021 PU, I really didn't think there was much left to gain in 2022.

I guess the only thing that might have had a bearing on this is if Ferrari/RB have managed to extract more power from the new E10 fuel and Merc perhaps not being able to do so.

Or do we believe this is all down to drag?

As far as I can see, Mercedes spent last year building a special one off engine for Hamilton to use in Brazil, Jeddah and Abu Dhabi

They did not focus on an E10 engine that would be locked in for the next four years

I can understand if you're frustrated (I am too, at Merc's performance), but you don't really believe that, do you? It's a silly thought. The top teams don't operate by the seat of their pants like that.

Andy Cowell left

RB poached engine staff

Engineers were put on an upgraded engine instead of the 2022 engine

Mercedes were looking at 8 WCC and 8WDC in the hybrid era, why don't you think they would not be sidetracked by that?

Also,

Ferrari, Honda and Renault designed their engines with E10 in mind, Honda 2021 engine was supposed to debut this year

Mercedes are the only team, as far as I'm aware that have not built an engine specifically for this new era

[Mchamilton]

As far as I can see, Mercedes spent last year building a special one off engine for Hamilton to use in Brazil, Jeddah and Abu Dhabi

They did not focus on an E10 engine that would be locked in for the next four years

I can understand if you're frustrated (I am too, at Merc's performance), but you don't really believe that, do you? It's a silly thought. The top teams don't operate by the seat of their pants like that.

Andy Cowell left

RB poached engine staff

Engineers were put on an upgraded engine instead of the 2022 engine

Mercedes were looking at 8 WCC and 8WDC in the hybrid era, why don't you think they would not be sidetracked by that?

Also,

Ferrari, Honda and Renault designed their engines with E10 in mind, Honda 2021 engine was supposed to debut this year

Mercedes are the only team, as far as I'm aware that have not built an engine specifically for this new era

Theyve said that they changed more engine conponents for this year than any other year since the v6 hybrid was introduced

[Watto]

I can understand if you're frustrated (I am too, at Merc's performance), but you don't really believe that, do you? It's a silly thought. The top teams don't operate by the seat of their pants like that.

Andy Cowell left

RB poached engine staff

Engineers were put on an upgraded engine instead of the 2022 engine

Mercedes were looking at 8 WCC and 8WDC in the hybrid era, why don't you think they would not be sidetracked by that?

Also,

Ferrari, Honda and Renault designed their engines with E10 in mind, Honda 2021 engine was supposed to debut this year

Mercedes are the only team, as far as I'm aware that have not built an engine specifically for this new era

Theyve said that they changed more engine conponents for this year than any other year since the v6 hybrid was introduced

I wonder if its a case if the Merc engine was the best for so long they largely kept the same philosophy where the other 3 had to reinvent the wheel so to speak. Its probably not a case that is bad now just no longer has the advantage it used to. Not really anything to do with design around E10 etc, or Cowell leaving. If they were behind, they would study or perhaps be more willing to go down an alternate design path to catch up and take a risk.

[matteosc]

I wonder if its a case if the Merc engine was the best for so long they largely kept the same philosophy where the other 3 had to reinvent the wheel so to speak. Its probably not a case that is bad now just no longer has the advantage it used to. Not really anything to do with design around E10 etc, or Cowell leaving. If they were behind, they would study or perhaps be more willing to go down an alternate design path to catch up and take a risk.

This is 100% what I think it happens, for both PU and car.

[izzy]

Theyve said that they changed more engine conponents for this year than any other year since the v6 hybrid was introduced

Exactly. In mid February Hywel Thomas was going on and on about what a big project this year's engine was and how adventurous they'd been: https://the-race.com/formula-1/mercedes ... ince-2014/

And if you look at the acceleration traces they're just as good as the others. It's at the top end when the drag is really kicking in they fall off the pace. And minimum speed and the grip-limited fast corners.

[matteosc]

Mercedes had crazy power at the end of last season. lewis could manage to effortlessly overtake half way down the straights.
I think FIA found something ala Ferrari and forced mercedes to quietly change a "illegal" system.
The sudden loss of power with all MB powered teams are just like it was when Ferrari was caught out and quietly forced to change.

Mercedes had crazy power for 3 races and it was notoriously losing more power than Honda/Ferrari/Renault at every race.

[N21]

Mercedes had crazy power at the end of last season. lewis could manage to effortlessly overtake half way down the straights.
I think FIA found something ala Ferrari and forced mercedes to quietly change a "illegal" system.
The sudden loss of power with all MB powered teams are just like it was when Ferrari was caught out and quietly forced to change.

This would absolutely not surprise me. I was thinking the same thing the other day

[DR30]

Mercedes had crazy power at the end of last season. lewis could manage to effortlessly overtake half way down the straights.
I think FIA found something ala Ferrari and forced mercedes to quietly change a "illegal" system.
The sudden loss of power with all MB powered teams are just like it was when Ferrari was caught out and quietly forced to change.

Mercedes had crazy power for 3 races and it was notoriously losing more power than Honda/Ferrari/Renault at every race.

I've been wondering what was in ( added end of the year? ) to the fuel, on Hamiltons's car at least, last year to "find" that out of the blue performance. And, aside from the conspiracy point of view, what was in the 5%? that was substituted for ethanol, that has caused such a loss for them. The above could hold some truth, or they knew that they would get found out sooner or later.

[PlatinumZealot]

If I were in engineering at HPP i would have been testing the 2022 engine alongside the 2021 engine so I would know exactly the deficit between the two.

Mercedes PU was clearly the class of the field and they did the minimal standard of staying within 10hp with the E10 fuel, then the poerformance of the engine should be quite satisfactory.

[Sevach]

Mercedes had crazy power at the end of last season. lewis could manage to effortlessly overtake half way down the straights.
I think FIA found something ala Ferrari and forced mercedes to quietly change a "illegal" system.
The sudden loss of power with all MB powered teams are just like it was when Ferrari was caught out and quietly forced to change.

This would absolutely not surprise me. I was thinking the same thing the other day

I'm avoiding the tinfoil for a bit... however, the pursuit of making stuff extra small has never gelled well with making more power.
Even in the article about how this engine is the most changed since 2014 all they talk about is helping the chassis and aero.

[rgava]

I remember reading somewhere about Allison saying that the biggest changes in the PU side this year were integration related.
Perhaps they went too far on the balance act between PU and aero. Particularly if they got it not as good as expected in the aero side and they have conditioned the PU development to the aero needs.
I may be wrong, but I've the impression they are in a similar position Ferrari found themselves in 2014 and Honda-McLaren in 2015/16. For sure, not as bad situation but perhaps they went into the same avenue, not in the right route.

[Big Tea]

Mercedes had crazy power at the end of last season. lewis could manage to effortlessly overtake half way down the straights.
I think FIA found something ala Ferrari and forced mercedes to quietly change a "illegal" system.
The sudden loss of power with all MB powered teams are just like it was when Ferrari was caught out and quietly forced to change.

This would absolutely not surprise me. I was thinking the same thing the other day

I'm avoiding the tinfoil for a bit... however, the pursuit of making stuff extra small has never gelled well with making more power.
Even in the article about how this engine is the most changed since 2014 all they talk about is helping the chassis and aero.

Yeh, as it stands they do not seen to be sure if the engine is 'messing' the car or the car 'messing' the engine.
What are the testing rules now? are they allowed to test the old engine in the new car at all? or the other way around?
One would still be this years, and I dont think they can (can they?)

I also wonder about un known effects of the new tyre size, mechanically and with flows.

[saviour stivala]

Testing at least on track can only be done in a race weekend, and power unit wise they can only run-test what have been homologated or approved by the FIA.