2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[AR3-GP]

Why would Mercedes supply a drinks company with their engine.. merc is a car constructor with racing heritage while redbull is a drinks company as lewis said

Pretty awkward when a drinks company can bring a huge challenge to a car constructor with racing heritage. At the moment, a drinks company is beating a car manufacturer!

Without newey redbull will go back to the midfield just like before 2009

And where would Mercedes be without Hamilton these last couple of years?

There are always key players in these championships. There is no point contemplating their absence.

[PlatinumZealot]

Because there would be no good outcome for Mercedes.

If red bull win it will be because of all the hard work redbull have done their chassis

If Mercedes win it will be because they have a superior engine and gave redbull a tuned down version.

Why would you sign up to that?

Ultimately, Mercedes invested a huge amount of resource in developing that PU. Red Bull did nothing other than slag off their PU supplier whilst doing nothing to develop their own PU. Why would Mercedes want to give up that resource to a competitor? Answer: They wouldn't. No one would.

We had Horner calling Mercedes cowards in his usual way of doing things. Was that supposed to change Mercedes's mind or was it school yard insults because he didn't get his own way. Well, we know the answer to that one too.

IIRC, RBR did a TON of in-house development on the Renault v8's...

Not exactly. They paid for more dyno-time at Viry, and they had a few improvements to the alternator and the KERS and that's about it. I remebmer the RedBull alternator failing miserably before they had a decent solution.

[silver]

Ultimately, Mercedes invested a huge amount of resource in developing that PU. Red Bull did nothing other than slag off their PU supplier whilst doing nothing to develop their own PU. Why would Mercedes want to give up that resource to a competitor? Answer: They wouldn't. No one would.

We had Horner calling Mercedes cowards in his usual way of doing things. Was that supposed to change Mercedes's mind or was it school yard insults because he didn't get his own way. Well, we know the answer to that one too.

IIRC, RBR did a TON of in-house development on the Renault v8's...

Not exactly. They paid for more dyno-time at Viry, and they had a few improvements to the alternator and the KERS and that's about it. I remebmer the RedBull alternator failing miserably before they had a decent solution.

They could have had a more fruitful outcome if Renault was open enough to work together.

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/arti ... 016-engine

Illien was brought in by Red Bull – and at Red Bull’s expense – late last year as an engine consultant in an effort at helping Renault Sport get to the bottom of its power unit problems. But it was always an awkward mesh. For years Illien and his Mercedes motors had been ‘the enemy’ at Renault and there was a perhaps understandable reluctance from the French side for all information to be free-flowing. At the engineer level, there was mutual respect. But at a managerial level there was a very tightly cordoned-off area – and what in essence happened was that two separate development paths were created for 2015, an Illien one and a ‘French’ one.

Illien’s original single-cylinder prototype early in the season gave no better results than what Renault was already developing. But a later single-cylinder study, with further improved combustion, proved much more promising – at around four per cent better than the current Renault motor. But development of it was not followed up as Renault Sport awaited the outcome of its parallel study.

This will form the basis of the 2016 Renault Sport engine while the Illien development will be foundation of the Red Bull engine. Both are Renault-based but with different combustion philosophies and different electrical ers systems. Red Bull had already been manufacturing key parts of this system to supply to Renault.

[atanatizante]

This "wait and see what anyone else is doing, then analyse and do the best thing for your car " strategy in this cost cap era is something that Force India/Racing Point did in the past ... from my point of view it`s kinda a wise decision after all, coz was something that they did successfully last year when they brought the big update also at the Silverstone and went up with the fastest car at the final races of the year ... so I smell that they`ll just mimic the same strategy for this year, IMHO ...

LE: something on the line with what GR said here: https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/geor ... r/9708254/

[atanatizante]

Shovlin calls it a vicious circle between the drivers and the car. The tyres are not warm enough. In a press statement, the Mercedes chief says: "We have to work hard on that tonight. We were a lot more competitive in FP1 than in FP2 during the cooler conditions. The data also shows that we are just not warm enough."

Shovlin thinks things should be a lot better this weekend once the temperature problem is solved, but, "At the moment we are in a circle where the drivers don't have the confidence in the car to go through the corners at full speed, while we need that very speed to warm up the tyre."

Source: https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/108026/m ... night.html

[Hammerfist]

So far it doesn’t look like they will make Q3. They’ve actually gone backwards from the first race of the season if you analyze closely. Also the only team not to have brought a single upgrade in Melbourne. Sad.

[Big Tea]

So far it doesn’t look like they will make Q3. They’ve actually gone backwards from the first race of the season if you analyze closely. Also the only team not to have brought a single upgrade in Melbourne. Sad.

Not much point in bringing upgrades if they don't know what they need to upgrade. They would only be compounding the problem by having more unknow or untested elements.

[chrisc90]

So far it doesn’t look like they will make Q3. They’ve actually gone backwards from the first race of the season if you analyze closely. Also the only team not to have brought a single upgrade in Melbourne. Sad.

Not much point in bringing upgrades if they don't know what they need to upgrade. They would only be compounding the problem by having more unknow or untested elements.

No good not knowing what to upgrade if you don’t know what makes it better. At one point, you need to introduce a difference to see what your ‘solution’ could do.

Tbh, it’s likely their whole concept is off.

[Zynerji]

Ultimately, Mercedes invested a huge amount of resource in developing that PU. Red Bull did nothing other than slag off their PU supplier whilst doing nothing to develop their own PU. Why would Mercedes want to give up that resource to a competitor? Answer: They wouldn't. No one would.

We had Horner calling Mercedes cowards in his usual way of doing things. Was that supposed to change Mercedes's mind or was it school yard insults because he didn't get his own way. Well, we know the answer to that one too.

IIRC, RBR did a TON of in-house development on the Renault v8's...

Not exactly. They paid for more dyno-time at Viry, and they had a few improvements to the alternator and the KERS and that's about it. I remebmer the RedBull alternator failing miserably before they had a decent solution.

Extra dyno time was due to the fuel/oil mismatch between RBR and Renault.

I distinctly recall interviews where they spoke about the intake system as well as the exhaust.

I mean, if you employ The First Airbender, you would want his help on that part of the engine.

[silver]

We are slowly realizing that solving porpoising is not the silver bullet for the problems as competitors have similar problems and yet are fast. There are probably a lot of areas to really improve on to be competitive.

[PlatinumZealot]

IIRC, RBR did a TON of in-house development on the Renault v8's...

Not exactly. They paid for more dyno-time at Viry, and they had a few improvements to the alternator and the KERS and that's about it. I remebmer the RedBull alternator failing miserably before they had a decent solution.

Extra dyno time was due to the fuel/oil mismatch between RBR and Renault.

I distinctly recall interviews where they spoke about the intake system as well as the exhaust.

I mean, if you employ The First Airbender, you would want his help on that part of the engine.

Nah. Renault doesn't operate that way. People can't just walk into their workshop and fiddle around with plenums and piston shapes.
In the V8 days, RB wanted the hot blowing on the diffusers, then the wanted cold blowing when the hot blowing was banned. This was just Viry doing their thing to give RB what they want. RB tried a lighter alternator on the Renault V8, Renault allowed them to plop one on, and it broke twice.

In the V6TH days, as you said RB tried to muscle in Mario Illien but when he showed Renault his solution Renault solution was still better. Obviously illien as great as he is, just doesn't have the sort of resource needed for these typres of engines without major funding from somewhere. Even if RedBull funded him then and there, he didn't have the time to produce something better. On the fuels part, I do remember RedBull also paying for dyno time to use a more aggressive fuel from their partner, which was a different from the Renault fuel. I remember it was done at the expense of reliability too.

[LilDEF1]

interesting FP3 from the team... Not as quick as the leaders but I think Lewis has the fastest S1 time but lost almost a second on the last sector... And they ran a few more laps after that so not as empty... I wonder what to make of that... Even the fastest McL that ran out of fuel couldn't top S1. After the session on Merc twitter page they noted how it was good data collection session... Let's see what happens in qualifying...

[atanatizante]

Had you been in the no man's land, as they are now, would you run the PU at the maximum STRAT mode? Sure you don't do that! And I think it`s the same strategy with all the customer cars.

In addition, it`s well-known fact that in higher PU modes the porpoising is worse due to an increased car`s resonance.

And last but not least, having a 23 races championship and most of all a PU that has been frozen for the following 4 years, I would take some precautionary measures at the start of the season, something like Ferrari is doing with its PU

[atanatizante]

In FP3 they were running with the Bahrein RW spec and it seems that they have warming up issues for they need multiple laps before posting a hot lap, with lots of understeer and brake problems ...

In addition, the longer they run on the soft tyres the better lap times they get, something to take into account both from qualy and race strategy perspective ...

[Airshifter]

In addition, it`s well-known fact that in higher PU modes the porpoising is worse due to an increased car`s resonance.

Is it? The higher speeds in certain conditions might cause it to say that higher power unit modes alone increases would probably be a stretch.

We don't see the stability issues under acceleration in any car that I'm aware of.