Mercedes W13

[godlameroso]

In boats porpoising happens when you have too much weight in the rear. With some weight loss maybe they can change the weight balance a bit.

[Mchamilton]

In boats porpoising happens when you have too much weight in the rear. With some weight loss maybe they can change the weight balance a bit.

Weight distribution is tightly constained by the regulations though so they cant move a huge amount around

[morefirejules08]

With the slim sidepods I assume they had to move component further back or to the front meaning there'd be less weight near the turning central point(axel of rotation).

That'd make the car more lazy and unresponsive to direction changes and would be harder to handle all in all.

I have not heard anyone mentioning that.

We have also heard that it seems to be problems they can't solve during the season but have to work around.
That could possibly hint to that they cannot move large components around.

Are my assumptions correct?
Is this a part of Mercedes struggles?

I’ve not seen anyone suggest the problem can’t be solved in season

[Lefty8]

With the slim sidepods I assume they had to move component further back or to the front meaning there'd be less weight near the turning central point(axel of rotation).

That'd make the car more lazy and unresponsive to direction changes and would be harder to handle all in all.

I have not heard anyone mentioning that.

We have also heard that it seems to be problems they can't solve during the season but have to work around.
That could possibly hint to that they cannot move large components around.

Are my assumptions correct?
Is this a part of Mercedes struggles?

According to Piola in this video, the new W13 has a shorter gearbox and the engine sits a little bit more rearward in the car compared to McLaren as well as compared to every other non-Merc team.

so a centre of mass that resides behind its centre of pressure? What is the relevance of the engine being more rearward? I'v haven't been around Italian or Italians regularly for 20years so I'm very rusty. He seems to suggest some sort of instability (which is already known).
This might explain the tail happiness and pitch sensitivity of the W13

[AR3-GP]

In boats porpoising happens when you have too much weight in the rear. With some weight loss maybe they can change the weight balance a bit.

Weight distribution is tightly constained by the regulations though so they cant move a huge amount around

Weight distribution is only controlled in the X dimension on nearly dry tanks . The center of gravity is not controlled (engine cg is, but not total car cg). High center of gravity will exacerbate any pitching motions (so not pure heave, but bouncing from the front to the rear and back)

[mantikos]

Soooo, given Leclerc just smashed the field with a car with violent porpoising, maybe fixing the porpoising isn't the silver bullet at all.

If you are in the appropriate ride height window and porpoise, versus running on stilts outside the designed ride height and proposing, those would have two very different impacts.

[erikejw]

With the slim sidepods I assume they had to move component further back or to the front meaning there'd be less weight near the turning central point(axel of rotation).

That'd make the car more lazy and unresponsive to direction changes and would be harder to handle all in all.

I have not heard anyone mentioning that.

We have also heard that it seems to be problems they can't solve during the season but have to work around.
That could possibly hint to that they cannot move large components around.

Are my assumptions correct?
Is this a part of Mercedes struggles?

I’ve not seen anyone suggest the problem can’t be solved in season

True, I couldn't find any statement like that. I remembered that part incorrectly.

Though, my questions still stand. Have the rearranging of weight created some highly unwanted car behaviour. Is that a real problem or not.

@Dialtone
Interesting link.

[dialtone]

With the slim sidepods I assume they had to move component further back or to the front meaning there'd be less weight near the turning central point(axel of rotation).

That'd make the car more lazy and unresponsive to direction changes and would be harder to handle all in all.

I have not heard anyone mentioning that.

We have also heard that it seems to be problems they can't solve during the season but have to work around.
That could possibly hint to that they cannot move large components around.

Are my assumptions correct?
Is this a part of Mercedes struggles?

I’ve not seen anyone suggest the problem can’t be solved in season

True, I couldn't find any statement like that. I remembered that part incorrectly.

Though, my questions still stand. Have the rearranging of weight created some highly unwanted car behaviour. Is that a real problem or not.

I'm not actually sure you can change the installation layout of the engine all that much according to the rulebook. Customer teams need to get approval from FIA to change layout of cabling and such when installing the power unit and the change needs to be somewhat minimal even at that.

And changing engine position wouldn't qualify as reliability in all likelihood, of course they can be flexible with rules I suppose.

[morefirejules08]

With the slim sidepods I assume they had to move component further back or to the front meaning there'd be less weight near the turning central point(axel of rotation).

That'd make the car more lazy and unresponsive to direction changes and would be harder to handle all in all.

I have not heard anyone mentioning that.

We have also heard that it seems to be problems they can't solve during the season but have to work around.
That could possibly hint to that they cannot move large components around.

Are my assumptions correct?
Is this a part of Mercedes struggles?

I’ve not seen anyone suggest the problem can’t be solved in season

True, I couldn't find any statement like that. I remembered that part incorrectly.

Though, my questions still stand. Have the rearranging of weight created some highly unwanted car behaviour. Is that a real problem or not.

@Dialtone
Interesting link.

No one know but the Mercedes engineers what the true problems are but personally I think if they can get a handle non the porpoising then everything else will start falling into place.

[mulamutti]

Based on what Toto said, the main thing they need to figure out is why their simulation and virtual performance is different than the real world. I think that differential has caused them to be surprised at the lack of performance. If they reduce that differential, they can fix and develop the car much faster.

[wunderkind]

Seems like the Mercedes cars are not porpoising as much as the Ferrari in the race so far. The W13 is still porpoising, but at lower frequency.

[zubster]

Race pace looking a lot better, given can fight with a redbull.

[Mchamilton]

Race pace looking a lot better, given can fight with a redbull.

Is it looking better compared to ferrari though or were red bull just worse in this race? Must have been close to 1 second a lap to Charles after the safety car

[dialtone]

Race pace looking a lot better, given can fight with a redbull.

Is it looking better compared to ferrari though or were red bull just worse in this race? Must have been close to 1 second a lap to Charles after the safety car

RedBull were in big trouble this race with difficulty in getting tyre temperature in the front. VER was getting 1s a lap towards the end of his first stint, Perez as well ran out of tyres on both stints. This race was dominant for Ferrari more because RBR was in trouble IMHO. Pace difference from W13 is still there.

[Mchamilton]

Race pace looking a lot better, given can fight with a redbull.

Is it looking better compared to ferrari though or were red bull just worse in this race? Must have been close to 1 second a lap to Charles after the safety car

RedBull were in big trouble this race with difficulty in getting tyre temperature in the front. VER was getting 1s a lap towards the end of his first stint, Perez as well ran out of tyres on both stints. This race was dominant for Ferrari more because RBR was in trouble IMHO. Pace difference from W13 is still there.

Yep exactly what i was getting at.