You're saying they should have gone with a narrower or wider floor? They'd still want those elements or something equivalent in either case.jjn9128 wrote: ↑10 Apr 2022, 21:50Yes a lot of aerodynamic complexity was necessitated by the proximity of the front tyre to bodywork - it was part of the reason for the narrow track from 1998 to slow the cars by having them injest their own tyre wake. It's also why 2017 was so dumb moving to a 1.6m wide floor when the cars went back to 2m track. It continued to necessitate the complex front wing, brake duct/caketin, and bargeboard arrangements to stop the front tyre wakes going under the car.
2017 they (FIA) went for a wider floor, but bodywork kept as before. I’m not sure when enveloped wheels were banned, but Mercedes ran with fully enclose bodywork in the mid-fifties (occasionally). From a purity perspective I would say that the ‘cleanest’ cars were the early eighties, but that seemed to run through to the early nineties.vorticism wrote: ↑10 Apr 2022, 22:16You're saying they should have gone with a narrower or wider floor? They'd still want those elements or something equivalent in either case.jjn9128 wrote: ↑10 Apr 2022, 21:50Yes a lot of aerodynamic complexity was necessitated by the proximity of the front tyre to bodywork - it was part of the reason for the narrow track from 1998 to slow the cars by having them injest their own tyre wake. It's also why 2017 was so dumb moving to a 1.6m wide floor when the cars went back to 2m track. It continued to necessitate the complex front wing, brake duct/caketin, and bargeboard arrangements to stop the front tyre wakes going under the car.
If I keep opening this matryoshka doll I find that the tires produce wakes, ergo an open wheel formula will always produce tire wakes, although the open wheel formula also decided that aerodynamics were important, except for the aerodynamics of the open wheels. One wonders how F1 would have developed if wheel covers would bave been allowed at some point after the 1950s. It's a weird schism, wanting to be an aero formula, and not an aero formula, at the same time.
The floors/bodywork were always 1.4m wide, in 2017 they increased that by 200mm when they increased the track by 200mm. They also increased the front tyre width so it had a bigger wake too.
Ah, but Ecclestone wanted faster cars and Todt wanted FIA reelection
Gotcha, but you were saying this was related to front tire wake negatively. Was that to say, a narrower floor would have skirted in between the tire wake, or a wider floor would have negated the effect of it? Something else?
There are 2 points of the 2022 rules 1) make cars easier to follow but also 2) make cars which follow more easily. The y250 gets weakened in a wake (Cp is pulled towards 0 from +ve and-ve sides) so makes the car worse when in a wake.
So the unified raised (high center) FW deals better with wake, you think? The Y250 was a good way to have predictable flow through the region, could have been made to work well with the floor edges, maybe even the tunnel inlet.
Yeah, it's amusing how people go at each others throats at the smallest aero details, but conveniently ignore the four giant cylinders that are ridiculously being pulled around. A total cognitive dissonance.vorticism wrote: ↑10 Apr 2022, 22:16If I keep opening this matryoshka doll I find that the tires produce wakes, ergo an open wheel formula will always produce tire wakes, although the open wheel formula also decided that aerodynamics were important, except for the aerodynamics of the open wheels. One wonders how F1 would have developed if wheel covers would bave been allowed at some point after the 1950s. It's a weird schism, wanting to be an aero formula, and not an aero formula, at the same time.
Newey gave an insight into what it might look like with the X2010 cars. A closed wheel car, that still looked like an open wheel car.mzso wrote: ↑18 Apr 2022, 00:58Yeah, it's amusing how people go at each others throats at the smallest aero details, but conveniently ignore the four giant cylinders that are ridiculously being pulled around. A total cognitive dissonance.vorticism wrote: ↑10 Apr 2022, 22:16If I keep opening this matryoshka doll I find that the tires produce wakes, ergo an open wheel formula will always produce tire wakes, although the open wheel formula also decided that aerodynamics were important, except for the aerodynamics of the open wheels. One wonders how F1 would have developed if wheel covers would bave been allowed at some point after the 1950s. It's a weird schism, wanting to be an aero formula, and not an aero formula, at the same time.
Also, covering up the wheels would have helped more with dirty air then all of the ridiculously long list of contrivances the added to the regulation. (Well, maybe apart from the created upwash)
Is this the RB X2010 retextured to many liveries?