SiLo wrote: ↑10 May 2022, 15:03
ringo wrote: ↑10 May 2022, 14:48
AA_2019 wrote: ↑09 May 2022, 19:01
Don't be a fool, you take on board the successful concepts of others and blend it into yours.
The 4 points mentioned are transferable to any car as they are generic concepts. Obviously you need to make it work in conjunction with the rest of the car.
RB copied many subtle aspects of the Merc rear end (including suspension aspects) for the start of last year and it helped to give them the fastest car in 2021.
I remember many fools in 2009 saying the same thing as you when McLaren-Mercedes had a flawed car at the back of the grid. Back then I was saying they should copy what works which was the outwashing Brawn concept. The fools like you said you can't copy, you need to understand data, modelling, reasons for this and that [blah blah blah]... 9 races later Mclaren-Mercedes brought out the Brawn style outwashing concept and had a race winning car from day 1 of the revised B-spec car.
Merc need to take the same approach, look at what works and just do it.
Agreed. Copying always works and has been part of the sport for decades.
Some put too much mystique and complication to F1 cars. Everything can be copied. And copying saves time and resources.
A better part will be better than the part is replacing. Yes it might not be maximized if other parts are modified up stream and downstream, but there will be benefit nonethless. The team will see that something is working and then they can fine tune it to their car.
For argument stake, if ferrari sidepods were a silver bullet and merc copied it they would see an improvement over theirs; if its even 2%. Furrher development of rear wing and beam eing and turning vanes would reap more performance. Long story short copying is a major tool in F1. Mercedes can copy the ice skate, the floor and the separated nose tip over the front wing and im sure the car would improve.
It's really not that simple and I wish people would stop making it so. You might be able to copy some concepts if they work with your current flow structures, but as soon as you make larger, wholesale changes you need to start changing so much more of the car you're basically designing a new car entirely.
There are probably so many different factors that create the car concept, simply copying another idea will maybe bring a small gain, however it normally is not quite that simple.
As a guess It looks untenable for example to simply copy the RB floor and put it on the Mercedes, you only have to view the two cars from the side to understand that. The RB driver position in relation to the floor reference boxes will highlight the issue. RB have placed the driver much farther back in the car in relation to the floor front edge reference box. Hence opening up available space at the front section of the floor.
For me the cars concepts appear pretty much fixed already, there is little wiggle room until a new concept/chassis is produced next year.
It does appear though that It’s not all doom and gloom as comparing the Ferrari concept to the RB concept there are big differences, and yet both cars are competitive.
Perhaps Mercedes’ are correct to slowly understand their problems, they perhaps are less likely to make more mistakes going forward.
They are also maybe reaping a little bit more criticism than they would have encountered had they been slightly less bullish pre season regarding their 22 concept.