2022 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[FDD]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EM240IV ... Ng&index=2
Interesting video, even if I do not agree 100%. I think Ferrari cannot run a low downforce package with the same efficiency of Red Bull.

I love it when "experts" jump to conclusions based on results of two races in extremely specific conditions... Just like they jumped to conclusions when Ferrari took a dominant win in Melbourne. Literally no conclusions about the two cars can be drawn from previous two races, other than noting (the obvious) that RB as a team managed those conditions better.

As for efficiency, we are yet to see a true low DF package from Ferrari and how they fare with it, probably in Baku at the earliest.

I honestly think that Craig Scarborough is a rather reliable source. We are all speculating since the cars were presented, we are all drawing conclusions since the tests, I think we can keep doing that and having fun, even if our conclusions are wrong. We are not actually designing the cars, so if we are wrong is not big deal.

What we can say for sure is that up to this point Ferrari is running an higher downforce (and consequentially higher drag) setup than Red Bull. Whether this is for choice or necessity we do not know yet and you are right, we do not have an efficiency comparison since we never saw them with the same downforce levels.
Ferrari may bring a low DF package at a certain point and then we will know; in the meantime, I think we can keep discussing about it, even if we have no proof, one way or another.

Completely wrong analyses by C.S. for the race since we know that track temp was about 10 degrees lower than previous day and this suited to RB18 more since it works tires better in colder conditions, as we already saw in Imola. Also if the temps were the same for FP I think that Ferrari would be able to find better set up.

[bagajohny]

I love it when "experts" jump to conclusions based on results of two races in extremely specific conditions... Just like they jumped to conclusions when Ferrari took a dominant win in Melbourne. Literally no conclusions about the two cars can be drawn from previous two races, other than noting (the obvious) that RB as a team managed those conditions better.

As for efficiency, we are yet to see a true low DF package from Ferrari and how they fare with it, probably in Baku at the earliest.

I honestly think that Craig Scarborough is a rather reliable source. We are all speculating since the cars were presented, we are all drawing conclusions since the tests, I think we can keep doing that and having fun, even if our conclusions are wrong. We are not actually designing the cars, so if we are wrong is not big deal.

What we can say for sure is that up to this point Ferrari is running an higher downforce (and consequentially higher drag) setup than Red Bull. Whether this is for choice or necessity we do not know yet and you are right, we do not have an efficiency comparison since we never saw them with the same downforce levels.
Ferrari may bring a low DF package at a certain point and then we will know; in the meantime, I think we can keep discussing about it, even if we have no proof, one way or another.

Completely wrong analyses by C.S. for the race since we know that track temp was about 10 degrees lower than previous day and this suited to RB18 more since it works tires better in colder conditions, as we already saw in Imola. Also if the temps were the same for FP I think that Ferrari would be able to find better set up.

Is it the case that different cars have different working temperature range for tires? I always thought that all the cars needed to bring the tires to same temperature range to make them work.

[matteosc]

I honestly think that Craig Scarborough is a rather reliable source. We are all speculating since the cars were presented, we are all drawing conclusions since the tests, I think we can keep doing that and having fun, even if our conclusions are wrong. We are not actually designing the cars, so if we are wrong is not big deal.

What we can say for sure is that up to this point Ferrari is running an higher downforce (and consequentially higher drag) setup than Red Bull. Whether this is for choice or necessity we do not know yet and you are right, we do not have an efficiency comparison since we never saw them with the same downforce levels.
Ferrari may bring a low DF package at a certain point and then we will know; in the meantime, I think we can keep discussing about it, even if we have no proof, one way or another.

Completely wrong analyses by C.S. for the race since we know that track temp was about 10 degrees lower than previous day and this suited to RB18 more since it works tires better in colder conditions, as we already saw in Imola. Also if the temps were the same for FP I think that Ferrari would be able to find better set up.

Is it the case that different cars have different working temperature range for tires? I always thought that all the cars needed to bring the tires to same temperature range to make them work.

The working range of the tires is the same for everyone, but the ability of the car to build up temperature is different for each team.

I would not consider the Miami race as "cold" (like Imola), even if the temperature was lower than Saturday.

[FDD]

Completely wrong analyses by C.S. for the race since we know that track temp was about 10 degrees lower than previous day and this suited to RB18 more since it works tires better in colder conditions, as we already saw in Imola. Also if the temps were the same for FP I think that Ferrari would be able to find better set up.

Is it the case that different cars have different working temperature range for tires? I always thought that all the cars needed to bring the tires to same temperature range to make them work.

The working range of the tires is the same for everyone, but the ability of the car to build up temperature is different for each team.

I would not consider the Miami race as "cold" (like Imola), even if the temperature was lower than Saturday.

You are absolutely right, Miami was not as cold as Imola or cold in general, but 10 degrees is huge difference from Saturday to Sunday, and I think it has impact on tire working window/car set up.

[matteosc]

Is it the case that different cars have different working temperature range for tires? I always thought that all the cars needed to bring the tires to same temperature range to make them work.

The working range of the tires is the same for everyone, but the ability of the car to build up temperature is different for each team.

I would not consider the Miami race as "cold" (like Imola), even if the temperature was lower than Saturday.

You are absolutely right, Miami was not as cold as Imola or cold in general, but 10 degrees is huge difference from Saturday to Sunday, and I think it has impact on tire working window/car set up.

It definitely did, even though it is difficult to say how and how much, since on Saturday it was all about a single lap and Sunday all about tire degradation. In the last two races Red Bull was able to obtain a better tire management in the race, which is remarkable given that they ran a lower downforce setup.

[Andi76]

Is it the case that different cars have different working temperature range for tires? I always thought that all the cars needed to bring the tires to same temperature range to make them work.

The working range of the tires is the same for everyone, but the ability of the car to build up temperature is different for each team.

I would not consider the Miami race as "cold" (like Imola), even if the temperature was lower than Saturday.

You are absolutely right, Miami was not as cold as Imola or cold in general, but 10 degrees is huge difference from Saturday to Sunday, and I think it has impact on tire working window/car set up.

It has. And it was obvious. Leclerc had a problems with both, front and rear tyres. In the telemetry available you can see he had to do a lot of corrections because he had oversteer. In Miami Ferrari definetely had tyre issues. That is underlined by the fact that Red Bull was faster in areas of the track usually considered "Ferrari-Territory". I assume it was probably because of their set-up choice to heat up the tyres as quick as possible.

[dialtone]

The working range of the tires is the same for everyone, but the ability of the car to build up temperature is different for each team.

I would not consider the Miami race as "cold" (like Imola), even if the temperature was lower than Saturday.

You are absolutely right, Miami was not as cold as Imola or cold in general, but 10 degrees is huge difference from Saturday to Sunday, and I think it has impact on tire working window/car set up.

It definitely did, even though it is difficult to say how and how much, since on Saturday it was all about a single lap and Sunday all about tire degradation. In the last two races Red Bull was able to obtain a better tire management in the race, which is remarkable given that they ran a lower downforce setup.

I think funnily enough the 2 races were the opposites of reasons:
in Imola Ferrari couldn't heat the tyres, always needed 2 laps, like in Australia or Jeddah or Bahrain, to bring them to temperature, ran softer suspension but jumped around too much, couldn't brake well into T2 and T5, but was great in variante alta.

in Miami Ferrari was heating tyres too much, great 1 lap pace without warmup lap, unlike any race before, hard suspension to avoid porpoising, good speed in straights, no mechanical grip which shred fronts and rears with overheating.

So I think at the moment Ferrari setup is trickier than RBR due to porpoising, avoiding it restricts the setup options making the optimal window harder to reach. In a track with lower top speed, where porpoising isn't as big of a deal, the window should be there for Ferrari to perform without too much compromise.

EDIT: How do we move these posts to team thread? I don't think this belongs here.

[f1316]

I agree, Franco Nugnes is very unreliable. Duchessa is the most reliable Italian F1 journalist.

#Ferrari update: # F175 will carry out its second filming day on Friday in Monza, an interesting verification on aerodynamic configurations possible

I can’t remember the last time Ferrari tested (ok, did a “filming day”) at Monza, rather than at Fiorano or even Mugello. Ok maybe it is because they think it’ll look nice for filming but I doubt it’s a coincidence that they’ve chosen the highest speed circuit on the calendar at a time where they seem to be looking to find a lower drag package.

[dialtone]

I agree, Franco Nugnes is very unreliable. Duchessa is the most reliable Italian F1 journalist.

#Ferrari update: # F175 will carry out its second filming day on Friday in Monza, an interesting verification on aerodynamic configurations possible

I can’t remember the last time Ferrari tested (ok, did a “filming day”) at Monza, rather than at Fiorano or even Mugello. Ok maybe it is because they think it’ll look nice for filming but I doubt it’s a coincidence that they’ve chosen the highest speed circuit on the calendar at a time where they seem to be looking to find a lower drag package.

They are looking for porpoising fixes more than drag fixes imho. I say this because you can test aero drag in many tracks actually, even without getting above 300kph, in fact aero rakes and such work much slower than that. But porpoising requires the high speeds and are hard to simulate, and Monza is the fastest GP of the year and likely one of the most critical for Ferrari's home crowd.

[f1316]

I agree, Franco Nugnes is very unreliable. Duchessa is the most reliable Italian F1 journalist.

I can’t remember the last time Ferrari tested (ok, did a “filming day”) at Monza, rather than at Fiorano or even Mugello. Ok maybe it is because they think it’ll look nice for filming but I doubt it’s a coincidence that they’ve chosen the highest speed circuit on the calendar at a time where they seem to be looking to find a lower drag package.

They are looking for porpoising fixes more than drag fixes imho. I say this because you can test aero drag in many tracks actually, even without getting above 300kph, in fact aero rakes and such work much slower than that. But porpoising requires the high speeds and are hard to simulate, and Monza is the fastest GP of the year and likely one of the most critical for Ferrari's home crowd.

Yeah, that’s fair, you may be right. Either way though, I think the unusual choice of Monza was not a coincidence.

[matteosc]

I can’t remember the last time Ferrari tested (ok, did a “filming day”) at Monza, rather than at Fiorano or even Mugello. Ok maybe it is because they think it’ll look nice for filming but I doubt it’s a coincidence that they’ve chosen the highest speed circuit on the calendar at a time where they seem to be looking to find a lower drag package.

They are looking for porpoising fixes more than drag fixes imho. I say this because you can test aero drag in many tracks actually, even without getting above 300kph, in fact aero rakes and such work much slower than that. But porpoising requires the high speeds and are hard to simulate, and Monza is the fastest GP of the year and likely one of the most critical for Ferrari's home crowd.

Yeah, that’s fair, you may be right. Either way though, I think the unusual choice of Monza was not a coincidence.

I think it is very smart of them to use Monza: it gives them the opportunity of testing a low downforce package, work on drag reduction and porpoising. No team was able to test these conditions so far (wind tunnel is limited in maximum speed).

[Spoutnik]

[Sevach]

I can’t remember the last time Ferrari tested (ok, did a “filming day”) at Monza, rather than at Fiorano or even Mugello. Ok maybe it is because they think it’ll look nice for filming but I doubt it’s a coincidence that they’ve chosen the highest speed circuit on the calendar at a time where they seem to be looking to find a lower drag package.

They are looking for porpoising fixes more than drag fixes imho. I say this because you can test aero drag in many tracks actually, even without getting above 300kph, in fact aero rakes and such work much slower than that. But porpoising requires the high speeds and are hard to simulate, and Monza is the fastest GP of the year and likely one of the most critical for Ferrari's home crowd.

Yeah, that’s fair, you may be right. Either way though, I think the unusual choice of Monza was not a coincidence.

If i remember correctly for filming days you get "special tires" which compromise it as a handling/setup test.
Monza isn't great for a handling test(as a track it's the only one of it's kind) but there's no better track for straight line aero testing than it however.

And not only low downforce packages, you can gather data and do the math for high downforce as well.

[matteosc]

They are looking for porpoising fixes more than drag fixes imho. I say this because you can test aero drag in many tracks actually, even without getting above 300kph, in fact aero rakes and such work much slower than that. But porpoising requires the high speeds and are hard to simulate, and Monza is the fastest GP of the year and likely one of the most critical for Ferrari's home crowd.

Yeah, that’s fair, you may be right. Either way though, I think the unusual choice of Monza was not a coincidence.

If i remember correctly for filming days you get "special tires" which compromise it as a handling/setup test.
Monza isn't great for a handling test(as a track it's the only one of it's kind) but there's no better track for straight line aero testing than it however.

And not only low downforce packages, you can gather data and do the math for high downforce as well.

You are right about the tires and the ability of doing aero testing. Is there a rule for new parts in these tests (I mean, filming days... )? Can they mount parts they did not officially introduce yet?

[Sevach]

Yeah, that’s fair, you may be right. Either way though, I think the unusual choice of Monza was not a coincidence.

If i remember correctly for filming days you get "special tires" which compromise it as a handling/setup test.
Monza isn't great for a handling test(as a track it's the only one of it's kind) but there's no better track for straight line aero testing than it however.

And not only low downforce packages, you can gather data and do the math for high downforce as well.

You are right about the tires and the ability of doing aero testing. Is there a rule for new parts in these tests (I mean, filming days... )? Can they mount parts they did not officially introduce yet?

I think filming days have more of an allowance than tire tests.
I mean everybody uses filming days to shake down cars that haven't raced yet, this would be illegal in a tire test i think.