Ferrari F1-75

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
bagajohny
bagajohny
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Re: Ferrari F1-75

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https://twitter.com/GiulyDuchessa/statu ... 1013369856

https://twitter.com/GiulyDuchessa/statu ... 6518830081

The straight line speed difference has disappeared completely. So I think if Lec takes pole he might be able to hold off Ver on the straights.

tpe
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Re: Ferrari F1-75

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rafeyahmad wrote:
21 May 2022, 14:17
tpe wrote:
21 May 2022, 14:08
So...
The introduced a new floor to solve porpoising, porpoising is still there and there seems no progress compared to RB. Merc is close now, much earlier than anyone thought, apart probably from the die heart fans.
Are we still sure that F1-75 doesn't need any updates?
Because the floor is not THAT different from what we have already see.
What nonsense.

They didn't introduce the floor to completely "solve porpoising". It was to reduce it so they can run the car lower. The ultimate solution will come with the rear suspensions in the 2nd half of the season. People absorb misleading headlines and then get disappointed when the team doesn't deliver on them.

The updates have worked as reported by Duchessa. Just because you can't visibly see the differences or the difference to RB doesn't seem that big doesn't mean they haven't. RB have also lost 5 kgs. It's all relative.
So, can you please tell me how porpoising was reduced? Do we have a measurement for this?
I don't have any data, of course, so I just comment with what is visible from the TV. And I didn't see any improvement.

Drift4794
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Re: Ferrari F1-75

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Mekies said the updates have worked.

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hollus
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Re: Ferrari F1-75

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Just the usual reminder:
If the post is about lap times, relative pace or track position, it does not belong in the car thread, but in the team thread.
Rivals, not enemies.

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variante
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Re: Ferrari F1-75

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bagajohny wrote:
21 May 2022, 15:01
https://twitter.com/GiulyDuchessa/statu ... 1013369856

https://twitter.com/GiulyDuchessa/statu ... 6518830081

The straight line speed difference has disappeared completely. So I think if Lec takes pole he might be able to hold off Ver on the straights.
Mainly for 2 reasons:
1st - Ferrari are using a greater Flap/Main ratio on their rear wings. This is closer to RedBull's philosophy, and it helps with top speed when the DRS is open (like during quali). It does not help with top speed during normal race laps and during defensive actions, when DRS is usually not available.
2nd - RedBull are using a larger rear wing, decreasing their top speed. In normal race condition, it should still be faster than Ferrari, even though the difference will probably be smaller.

I think that Ferrari engineers have learned their lesson, and will keep using this larger Flap/Main ratio in the next races, but otherwise the characteristics of the cars are similar to last GP.

mzso
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Re: Ferrari F1-75

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bagajohny wrote:
21 May 2022, 15:01
The straight line speed difference has disappeared completely. So I think if Lec takes pole he might be able to hold off Ver on the straights.
Tire management is what killed Ferrari's last couple races. And there doesn't seem to be an improvement there.
I wonder why it's such a weak spot for them, when in the first races it was an advantage.

tpe
tpe
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Re: Ferrari F1-75

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Is it possible to have issues because they changed the downforce levels to increase top speed?

dialtone
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Re: Ferrari F1-75

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mzso wrote:
bagajohny wrote:
21 May 2022, 15:01
The straight line speed difference has disappeared completely. So I think if Lec takes pole he might be able to hold off Ver on the straights.
Tire management is what killed Ferrari's last couple races. And there doesn't seem to be an improvement there.
I wonder why it's such a weak spot for them, when in the first races it was an advantage.
I don't know what data you are looking at. You have seen FP3 race sim on soft for both Ferraris right?

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organic
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Re: Ferrari F1-75

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dialtone wrote:
21 May 2022, 21:37
mzso wrote:
bagajohny wrote:
21 May 2022, 15:01
The straight line speed difference has disappeared completely. So I think if Lec takes pole he might be able to hold off Ver on the straights.
Tire management is what killed Ferrari's last couple races. And there doesn't seem to be an improvement there.
I wonder why it's such a weak spot for them, when in the first races it was an advantage.
I don't know what data you are looking at. You have seen FP3 race sim on soft for both Ferraris right?
Tyre management looked fine in FP at Miami right?

dialtone
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Re: Ferrari F1-75

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organic wrote:
dialtone wrote:
21 May 2022, 21:37
mzso wrote: Tire management is what killed Ferrari's last couple races. And there doesn't seem to be an improvement there.
I wonder why it's such a weak spot for them, when in the first races it was an advantage.
I don't know what data you are looking at. You have seen FP3 race sim on soft for both Ferraris right?
Tyre management looked fine in FP at Miami right?
No one knew, they had red flags all over, Carlos crashed, only managed 3 or 4 laps in race sim on one car alone AND there was nothing else they could do anyway, to avoid porpoising they had run harder suspension and chew tyres in the slow.

I'm not saying they will have better tyre deg tomorrow but you folks are all plenty too sure of yourselves despite the data having changed drastically from FP2. You can stay of the same opinion but ignoring the improvement is weird.

dialtone
dialtone
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Re: Ferrari F1-75

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Image

Leclerc vs Verstappen rear wing in Spain after quali.

ferkan
ferkan
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Re: Ferrari F1-75

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Looks like Ferrari is the one with smaller AoA, but could also be perspective duo to different angle that car points to if not perfectly straight

ryaan2904
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Re: Ferrari F1-75

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tpe wrote:
21 May 2022, 15:15
rafeyahmad wrote:
21 May 2022, 14:17
tpe wrote:
21 May 2022, 14:08
So...
The introduced a new floor to solve porpoising, porpoising is still there and there seems no progress compared to RB. Merc is close now, much earlier than anyone thought, apart probably from the die heart fans.
Are we still sure that F1-75 doesn't need any updates?
Because the floor is not THAT different from what we have already see.
What nonsense.

They didn't introduce the floor to completely "solve porpoising". It was to reduce it so they can run the car lower. The ultimate solution will come with the rear suspensions in the 2nd half of the season. People absorb misleading headlines and then get disappointed when the team doesn't deliver on them.

The updates have worked as reported by Duchessa. Just because you can't visibly see the differences or the difference to RB doesn't seem that big doesn't mean they haven't. RB have also lost 5 kgs. It's all relative.
So, can you please tell me how porpoising was reduced? Do we have a measurement for this?
I don't have any data, of course, so I just comment with what is visible from the TV. And I didn't see any improvement.
I remember f1 pundits saying that flaps/slots on the floor are good to control porpoising, but reduce the max downforce of the car.

Facts line up too, ferrari initially came up with a straight floor, then added a flexible flap to reduce porpoising. Now, they should have reduced porpoising, since they removed that flap.
Opposite situation for mercs, they had a straight floor and tons of porpoising so they added a very similar floor flap (to ferrari) for barca to reduce porpoising, trade-off being reduced downforce.
CFD Eyes of Sauron

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GrrG
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Re: Ferrari F1-75

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F1 | Ferrari: the extractor with the keel that is glued

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https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-fe ... content=it

AR3-GP
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Re: Ferrari F1-75

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ferkan wrote:
22 May 2022, 01:02
Looks like Ferrari is the one with smaller AoA, but could also be perspective duo to different angle that car points to if not perfectly straight
Angle of attack depends on the angle of the incoming airflow. Since the RB and the Ferrari have different bodywork shapes, it's a bit more complicated than just looking at the wing itself. Air could be down washing or up washing (gasp) a small amount towards the wing, increasing or decreasing the effective angle of attack.
A lion must kill its prey.