Mercedes W13

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
mantikos
mantikos
35
Joined: 02 Mar 2011, 17:35

Re: Mercedes W13

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Hazmat wrote:
22 May 2022, 10:06
dialtone wrote:
22 May 2022, 05:20
mantikos wrote:
22 May 2022, 04:54



They brought performance upgrades since testing, Merc has only introduced updates to control the bouncing and haven't introduced any performance updates

Please tell me you realize this and also the fact that the team has way better data than the stopwatch and doesn't agree with your hot take.
I don't think that's the reason, Ferrari has actually not brought updates, it's the same car since Barcelona testing except for the floor. However Ferrari only lapped with C3 tyre and heavy fuel in Barcelona testing so it's easy to beat it now that they know the car much better and the new floor works, just like new W13 floor works.
The floor thats credited with providing most of the cars downforce, new rear wing, new more powerful MGUK and a turned up engine..
Exactly - they've had performance focused updates and Mercedes has had none of those thus far focusing solely on the bouncing.

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JonoNic
4
Joined: 05 Mar 2015, 15:54

Re: Mercedes W13

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I would love to see the damage on Hamilton's caused on that first lap. Clearly there were bits of floor flying off, but he was so much faster. Could the damage have helped him in any way?
Always find the gap then use it.

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De Jokke
0
Joined: 30 Mar 2009, 02:51

Re: Mercedes W13

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JonoNic wrote:
22 May 2022, 17:45
I would love to see the damage on Hamilton's caused on that first lap. Clearly there were bits of floor flying off, but he was so much faster. Could the damage have helped him in any way?
just imagine hahaha, haas unlocks mercedes performance :lol: :lol: :lol:
Mercedes AMG + Hamilton => dreamteam!
If you can't beat'em, call Masi!

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De Jokke
0
Joined: 30 Mar 2009, 02:51

Re: Mercedes W13

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Henri wrote:
22 May 2022, 17:10
Car's racepace was good today.. we need a few updates and cut weight to be up there with red bull
pessimistic on that one, Toto said they couldn't do any more to shed weight...
Mercedes AMG + Hamilton => dreamteam!
If you can't beat'em, call Masi!

f1jcw
f1jcw
17
Joined: 21 Feb 2019, 21:15

Re: Mercedes W13

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De Jokke wrote:
22 May 2022, 18:02
Henri wrote:
22 May 2022, 17:10
Car's racepace was good today.. we need a few updates and cut weight to be up there with red bull
pessimistic on that one, Toto said they couldn't do any more to shed weight...
Theres always way, a few grams here, a few grams there

mkay
mkay
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Joined: 21 May 2010, 21:30

Re: Mercedes W13

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De Jokke wrote:
22 May 2022, 18:02
Henri wrote:
22 May 2022, 17:10
Car's racepace was good today.. we need a few updates and cut weight to be up there with red bull
pessimistic on that one, Toto said they couldn't do any more to shed weight...
Where did he say that?

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De Jokke
0
Joined: 30 Mar 2009, 02:51

Re: Mercedes W13

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Mercedes AMG + Hamilton => dreamteam!
If you can't beat'em, call Masi!

AA_2019
AA_2019
6
Joined: 02 Apr 2022, 12:53

Re: Mercedes W13

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mantikos wrote:
22 May 2022, 15:52
AA_2019 wrote:
22 May 2022, 11:49
Henri wrote:
22 May 2022, 05:50

Impressive car is the fastest in the power sections.. we need more down force in the corners because Ferrari is excellent there
They've lost the downforce in fixing the bouncing. Miami spec car would have been fastest in sector 3 and slower in the other 2 sectors.

Can't have it both ways, at least for now...
Nothing anywhere suggests that so please share your source. The team has consistently maintained that they refused to trade d/f to fix bouncing and I'm inclined to believe them unless you have a source.

I would hypothesize that they're missing performance updates that others have hence their d/f might still be at the baseline numbers while others have progressed. Also let's not forget they are bouncing through high speed corners still which is where they're losing time.

Also this puts to rest once in for all the drag BS - when running its designed ride height the car is intuitively slippery af.
Watch Ted's Post Qualy Notebook (Sky F1), he discusses the reasons for Merc's bouncing and the solution.

My attempt at a summary:

1) Wind tunnel didn't show up purpoising as they are not allowed by the FIA to run the airflow fast enough
2) Also their CFD models were not sophisticated enough to model it theoretically
3) They believed the floor would flex down sealing the floor edge like skirts and their models showed this would give them a huge amount of downforce
4) Problem was this turned out to lead to the bouncing
5) Solution was to stop the flexing by strengthening it and the floor edge detail to prevent sealing the floor

The solution has dramatically reduced the bouncing (whilst adding a lot of weight) but they no longer have a flexi floor sealing the floor which was giving them huge amounts of downforce at lower speeds as per their models.

As Lando Norris pointed out at the last race, the GPS trace showed Merc had always been quickest in slow corners

(Disclaimer: all words are relative so when I say seal the floor I don't mean a perfect seal, just relatively speaking)
Last edited by AA_2019 on 22 May 2022, 18:55, edited 1 time in total.
One day AI might be able to fix the W13 zero pod concept !

f1jcw
f1jcw
17
Joined: 21 Feb 2019, 21:15

Re: Mercedes W13

Post

AA_2019 wrote:
22 May 2022, 18:45
mantikos wrote:
22 May 2022, 15:52
AA_2019 wrote:
22 May 2022, 11:49


They've lost the downforce in fixing the bouncing. Miami spec car would have been fastest in sector 3 and slower in the other 2 sectors.

Can't have it both ways, at least for now...
Nothing anywhere suggests that so please share your source. The team has consistently maintained that they refused to trade d/f to fix bouncing and I'm inclined to believe them unless you have a source.

I would hypothesize that they're missing performance updates that others have hence their d/f might still be at the baseline numbers while others have progressed. Also let's not forget they are bouncing through high speed corners still which is where they're losing time.

Also this puts to rest once in for all the drag BS - when running its designed ride height the car is intuitively slippery af.
Watch Ted's Post Qualy Notebook, he discusses the reasons for Merc's bouncing and the solution.

My attempt at a summary:

1) Wind tunnel didn't show up purpoising as they are not allowed by the FIA to run the airflow fast enough
2) Also their CFD models were not sophisticated enough to model it theoretically
3) They believed the floor would flex down sealing the floor edge like skirts and their models showed this would give them a huge amount of downforce
4) Problem was this turned out to lead to the bouncing
5) Solution was to stop the flexing by strengthening it and the floor edge detail to prevent sealing the floor

The solution has dramatically reduced the bouncing (whilst adding a lot of weight) but they no longer have a flexi floor sealing the floor which was giving them huge amounts of downforce at lower speeds as per their models.

As Lando Norris pointed out at the last race, the GPS trace showed Merc had always been quickest in slow corners

(Disclaimer: all words are relative so when I say seal the floor I don't mean a perfect seal, just relatively speaking)
This is what **** me off about the new rules and regulations

They come up with new rules to "make racing closer" and I presume to end mercs dominance

But the they totally hobble teams trying to compete so that of a team gets a jump, no one can respond.

They restrict with budget, they restrict testing, they restrict tools, they restrict suspension.
It doesn’t feel done for closer racing.

101FlyingDutchman
101FlyingDutchman
17
Joined: 27 Feb 2019, 12:01

Re: Mercedes W13

Post

AA_2019 wrote:
22 May 2022, 18:45
mantikos wrote:
22 May 2022, 15:52
AA_2019 wrote:
22 May 2022, 11:49


They've lost the downforce in fixing the bouncing. Miami spec car would have been fastest in sector 3 and slower in the other 2 sectors.

Can't have it both ways, at least for now...
Nothing anywhere suggests that so please share your source. The team has consistently maintained that they refused to trade d/f to fix bouncing and I'm inclined to believe them unless you have a source.

I would hypothesize that they're missing performance updates that others have hence their d/f might still be at the baseline numbers while others have progressed. Also let's not forget they are bouncing through high speed corners still which is where they're losing time.

Also this puts to rest once in for all the drag BS - when running its designed ride height the car is intuitively slippery af.
Watch Ted's Post Qualy Notebook, he discusses the reasons for Merc's bouncing and the solution.

My attempt at a summary:

1) Wind tunnel didn't show up purpoising as they are not allowed by the FIA to run the airflow fast enough
2) Also their CFD models were not sophisticated enough to model it theoretically
3) They believed the floor would flex down sealing the floor edge like skirts and their models showed this would give them a huge amount of downforce
4) Problem was this turned out to lead to the bouncing
5) Solution was to stop the flexing by strengthening it and the floor edge detail to prevent sealing the floor

The solution has dramatically reduced the bouncing (whilst adding a lot of weight) but they no longer have a flexi floor sealing the floor which was giving them huge amounts of downforce at lower speeds as per their models.

As Lando Norris pointed out at the last race, the GPS trace showed Merc had always been quickest in slow corners

(Disclaimer: all words are relative so when I say seal the floor I don't mean a perfect seal, just relatively speaking)
Thank you. Very informative

f1jcw
f1jcw
17
Joined: 21 Feb 2019, 21:15

Re: Mercedes W13

Post

AA_2019 wrote:
22 May 2022, 18:45


The solution has dramatically reduced the bouncing (whilst adding a lot of weight) but they no longer have a flexi floor sealing the floor which was giving them huge amounts of downforce at lower speeds as per their models.

I presume they now have a target to work to now that they have solved bouncing and that is now add ways to seal the floor with some method, gain back the lost downforce and regain slow corner performance

elMaestro
elMaestro
0
Joined: 30 Aug 2013, 02:28

Re: Mercedes W13

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Considering they were only working so far to reduce the porpoising, surely now they can actually start to add performance to the car. Cant wait to see the laptimes Hamilton was puting with a damaged car aswell on the FIA website.

mantikos
mantikos
35
Joined: 02 Mar 2011, 17:35

Re: Mercedes W13

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He said they can't save weight on paint - nowhere does it say they can't save weight on parts like they've already done once or like RBR did this race

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ringo
230
Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 10:57

Re: Mercedes W13

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The overheating problem now seems to be related to a coolant leak .
They need to sort this out. But so far the car has made good progress.
I feel it only needs setup and suspension upgrades now and a little bit more refinement to challenge for wins.
For Sure!!

mkay
mkay
16
Joined: 21 May 2010, 21:30

Re: Mercedes W13

Post

ringo wrote:
22 May 2022, 19:02
The overheating problem now seems to be related to a coolant leak .
They need to sort this out. But so far the car has made good progress.
I feel it only needs setup and suspension upgrades now and a little bit more refinement to challenge for wins.
Shaving weight is almost as important too as it's free laptime. And they have more weight to lose than Ferrari and RB.