2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

[billamend]

Sounds like Dan likes his car much like Max does. Wondering if he would struggle with it too?

Max is kinda struggling. Reportedly he is not happy that the car is understeery. And one could speculate that that’s why Perez is so close to him this year.

Albon in his interview for BtG said that he likes a pointy car, but that Max preferes a whole new level of oversteer.

[A.J.O]

The above image shows where each car is fastest from Spain quali.
Looks like if McLaren wants to challenge for for wins this season they need to further reduce drag and increase front grip.
If RIC wants to stay in F1 he better spend every free min in the sim and learn how to deal with understeer.
Racing is a team effort. It's pretty apparent that both RIC and Engineering/Aero have work to do.

[Big Tea]

Sounds like Dan likes his car much like Max does. Wondering if he would struggle with it too?

Max is kinda struggling. Reportedly he is not happy that the car is understeery. And one could speculate that that’s why Perez is so close to him this year.

Albon in his interview for BtG said that he likes a pointy car, but that Max preferes a whole new level of oversteery.

If Max is struggling at all the other teams can say goodbye to this years championship if they improve it by ant amount.
Fearsome thought

[DiogoBrand]

this video explains everything.

Mclaren should have started working on making a car to adapt to Daniel;s Needs from the outset. The same way that Renault did for the 2020 car after a year of feedback. Not the other way around. They have ignored him and kept going a car philosiphy that makes Lando comfortable. Daniel has driven this way for most of his career. He cant suddenly change and drive against his natural instincts. Mclaren begged Daniel to join and yet they they went ahead with their garbage car philosiphy thats gotten them nowhere. James key said in 2020 that it will be hard to eliminate the traits and philosiphy of the 2021 car even though 2022 car has different regulations because they have always pursued that style of strength that allows late braking and directing into corners. I simply dont understand why they would hire Daniel then. L:ike i said. He simply isnt going to adapt to something when hes driven a way to exploit a certain car philosiphy thoughout his career.

Waste of time and money on both sides of the table. They have ruined his reputation by failing to cater for his needs and where has that gotten them? 1 second behind the leaders for the last 5 years. Horrible team. THey will never return to winning ways unless they are bought out by Porche or Audi and a big clean up and aquisition period happens withing the Technical department. James key has failed miserably and that is the truth of the matter no matter which way you look at it.

So you're saying that when there's a team of hundreds of engineers and a very promising driver working within a philosophy and achieving good results with it, and one driver that doesn't work well with it, the team of engineers and the promising driver must change everything to suit that one driver instead of the driver himself making an effort to adapt to the philosophy?

[Big Tea]

this video explains everything.

Mclaren should have started working on making a car to adapt to Daniel;s Needs from the outset. The same way that Renault did for the 2020 car after a year of feedback. Not the other way around. They have ignored him and kept going a car philosiphy that makes Lando comfortable. Daniel has driven this way for most of his career. He cant suddenly change and drive against his natural instincts. Mclaren begged Daniel to join and yet they they went ahead with their garbage car philosiphy thats gotten them nowhere. James key said in 2020 that it will be hard to eliminate the traits and philosiphy of the 2021 car even though 2022 car has different regulations because they have always pursued that style of strength that allows late braking and directing into corners. I simply dont understand why they would hire Daniel then. L:ike i said. He simply isnt going to adapt to something when hes driven a way to exploit a certain car philosiphy thoughout his career.

Waste of time and money on both sides of the table. They have ruined his reputation by failing to cater for his needs and where has that gotten them? 1 second behind the leaders for the last 5 years. Horrible team. THey will never return to winning ways unless they are bought out by Porche or Audi and a big clean up and aquisition period happens withing the Technical department. James key has failed miserably and that is the truth of the matter no matter which way you look at it.

So you're saying that when there's a team of hundreds of engineers and a very promising driver working within a philosophy and achieving good results with it, and one driver that doesn't work well with it, the team of engineers and the promising driver must change everything to suit that one driver instead of the driver himself making an effort to adapt to the philosophy?

I wonder which is the easiest part to change?

[JPower]

Sounds like Dan likes his car much like Max does. Wondering if he would struggle with it too?

Max is kinda struggling. Reportedly he is not happy that the car is understeery. And one could speculate that that’s why Perez is so close to him this year.

Albon in his interview for BtG said that he likes a pointy car, but that Max preferes a whole new level of oversteery.

If Max is struggling at all the other teams can say goodbye to this years championship if they improve it by ant amount.
Fearsome thought

The car will improve but I seriously doubt its inherent characteristics will change.

Again, just more evidence that engineers do not design these cars to fit one driver. All they can do is continue to tweak the setup and help the driver adapt.

[runningmanz]

this video explains everything.

Mclaren should have started working on making a car to adapt to Daniel;s Needs from the outset. The same way that Renault did for the 2020 car after a year of feedback. Not the other way around. They have ignored him and kept going a car philosiphy that makes Lando comfortable. Daniel has driven this way for most of his career. He cant suddenly change and drive against his natural instincts. Mclaren begged Daniel to join and yet they they went ahead with their garbage car philosiphy thats gotten them nowhere. James key said in 2020 that it will be hard to eliminate the traits and philosiphy of the 2021 car even though 2022 car has different regulations because they have always pursued that style of strength that allows late braking and directing into corners. I simply dont understand why they would hire Daniel then. L:ike i said. He simply isnt going to adapt to something when hes driven a way to exploit a certain car philosiphy thoughout his career.

Waste of time and money on both sides of the table. They have ruined his reputation by failing to cater for his needs and where has that gotten them? 1 second behind the leaders for the last 5 years. Horrible team. THey will never return to winning ways unless they are bought out by Porche or Audi and a big clean up and aquisition period happens withing the Technical department. James key has failed miserably and that is the truth of the matter no matter which way you look at it.

So you're saying that when there's a team of hundreds of engineers and a very promising driver working within a philosophy and achieving good results with it, and one driver that doesn't work well with it, the team of engineers and the promising driver must change everything to suit that one driver instead of the driver himself making an effort to adapt to the philosophy?

Who says McLaren are sticking 100% to this philosophy of an understeering car, it's still very early in these new regs and it also clearly lacks grip at a few tracks too, so still alot to work on and change
In Keys last podcast he is basically saying they are trying to get away from that. He also said they took a detailed look at the issues Ricciardo was having in the car and have tried to design that out of this new car. I'm not sure why some still are choosing to ignore what Key has mentioned very recently. It reflects what Seidl has mentioned a number of times too about the ongoing work taking place. Also the car in its current form is no world beater, so obviously it's still evolving towards a more balanced car for a start. It's what both guys have been asking for since last year and adaptation is ongoing in this new car.

[djos]

So you're saying that when there's a team of hundreds of engineers and a very promising driver working within a philosophy and achieving good results with it, and one driver that doesn't work well with it, the team of engineers and the promising driver must change everything to suit that one driver instead of the driver himself making an effort to adapt to the philosophy?

Lando’s feedback makes it clear he would like the same changes that Daniel needs. It’s also very clear that the Mclaren is not the fastest car, in fact not even close.

Therefore the logical conclusion is that Mclaren have taken the wrong direction and the car would have higher potential if they took the RBR/Ferrari approach to carrying speed through corners.

[JPower]

So you're saying that when there's a team of hundreds of engineers and a very promising driver working within a philosophy and achieving good results with it, and one driver that doesn't work well with it, the team of engineers and the promising driver must change everything to suit that one driver instead of the driver himself making an effort to adapt to the philosophy?

Lando’s feedback makes it clear he would like the same changes that Daniel needs. It’s also very clear that the Mclaren is not the fastest car, in fact not even close.

Therefore the logical conclusion is that Mclaren have taken the wrong direction and the car would have higher potential if they took the RBR/Ferrari approach to carrying speed through corners.

That's not logical at all. Those cars are faster due to a multitude of factors.

[runningmanz]

I believe the fundamentals of the car are sound, the team have stated this recently as well, its just going to take a bit more time to catch up given how far behind we got with the braking issues. We need to try and get rid of the understeer and engineer more grip. Still very early in these regs and an underestimation of the smart people at McLaren to say they can't get on top of these issues imo.

[DiogoBrand]

Lando’s feedback makes it clear he would like the same changes that Daniel needs. It’s also very clear that the Mclaren is not the fastest car, in fact not even close.

Therefore the logical conclusion is that Mclaren have taken the wrong direction and the car would have higher potential if they took the RBR/Ferrari approach to carrying speed through corners.

So Daniel is around a second slower than Lando because McLaren decided to not make their car as fast as Ferrari and Red Bull? I mean, if Daniel's feedback is that the car needs to be faster, I'm pretty sure Lando shares that opinion. If he wanted a car as fast as a Red Bull maybe he should've stayed there in the first place.

All of that doesn't change the fact that Ricciardo, a driver for whom I had the utmost respect, is so much slower than Lando that it's actually embarassing to watch. I just don't see the logic in saying the entire team must adapt to the driver instead of the other way around, It's like saying a football team must change their playstyle if they sign a new player and he doesn't play well.
And also, I don't see how a driver who many, including myself, used to consider one of the best on the grid, after a year and a half on a new team, can't adapt to the car well enough to be within a couple of tenths of his teammate, regardless of the design philosophy. Being complete and adaptive is part of being good.

[McG]

Some ridiculous off season tabloid esque conversations going on here like people have just started watching F1.

To put it simply...

The team design the car to be fast as possible yes.
They will help Daniel as much as possible without any comprise whatsoever to what shows as the fastest design.
Daniel still can't match Lando because he is naturally slower/less talented with a flaw in his ability to adapt.
Which leads onto Lando being able to maximize the fastest design without compromise.

Why don't you all stop arguing. The season will see itself out and we will see if Daniel can eventually get good. He's not going to be sacked mid season so calm down.

[runningmanz]

Some ridiculous off season tabloid esque conversations going on here like people have just started watching F1.

To put it simply...

The team design the car to be fast as possible yes.
They will help Daniel as much as possible without any comprise whatsoever to what shows as the fastest design.
Daniel still can't match Lando because he is naturally slower/less talented with a flaw in his ability to adapt.
Which leads onto Lando being able to maximize the fastest design without compromise.

Why don't you all stop arguing. The season will see itself out and we will see if Daniel can eventually get good. He's not going to be sacked mid season so calm down.

This car clearly isn't the fastest design. Saying Lando is the only one who can master the fastest design is clearly wrong. He is obviously at the moment able to cope better with this current iteration of the car. That doesn't mean it's a forgone conclusion that Ricciardo will never be able to adapt or McLaren won't continue to evolve this car more towards what Ricciardo is comfortable with and what in fact both guys are actually more comfortable with. Basically a better all round car like the Ferrari and Red Bull. Ricciardo has shown before at teams like Red Bull and Renault he can master a car. Again you guys need to stop ignoring what Key has said and with the nonsense that Ricciardo is being flogged week in week out which is clearly not the case nor is it even half the race weekends this season in a new car.

Does Dan he need to improve, no doubt about it, does he need some luck too, hell yes. Is he a washed up hack miles off Lando? No of course not. Anyone that believes that is just being disrespectful and ignorant imo. There wouldn't be this much angst if some just showed an ounce of respect, decency and constructive comments towards Ricciardo instead of rubbishing him at every opportunity.

Anyway let's see how it plays out while the team get back to work, I'd much prefer to talk about how the team can improve the car and get it back up the front.

[Stu]

If the nature of the regulation changes result in a car that is very front limited, there is no way that any team can construct a ‘pointy’ car that is also fast.
The role of the driver is to extract the potential of the car, which means finding the fastest way to pedal it around the track (and adapt their driving accordingly). The gap between Lando and Daniel is quite big, but the consequences of it is amplified significantly by the closeness of the grid.

[djos]

If the nature of the regulation changes result in a car that is very front limited, there is no way that any team can construct a ‘pointy’ car that is also fast.
The role of the driver is to extract the potential of the car, which means finding the fastest way to pedal it around the track (and adapt their driving accordingly). The gap between Lando and Daniel is quite big, but the consequences of it is amplified significantly by the closeness of the grid.

Sure, however I think you are vastly over simplifying the role of the driver. If it was really a case of engineers designing the fastest possible car, irrespective of driver preferences, the teams wouldn’t be investing tens of millions of dollars in “Driver In The Loop” simulators.

You simply can’t ignore the drivers feedback when designing a car as it’s the drivers job to extract the speed from the car.

Yes there needs to be some effort on the part of the drivers to maximise the cars potential, but when there is something fundamentally incompatible with one of your drivers, and the other driver agrees (it doesn’t matter that the other driver is able to get more speed from the car), the team needs to change the car characteristics.

You only need to look at what Daniel did with the Renault in his second year there. He was putting that car into positions on the grid most ppl didn’t think it was capable of. Why, because the team made the driving characteristic changes Daniel requested.