2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

[Stu]

Yes, it was a simplification; but no matter how hard they wish for it, if you are front limited (and not able to simply bolt more downforce on), the only way to get it feeling pointy is to reduce grip at the rear (from the previously commented on report from Leclerc it seems that Ferrari are doing this - certainly at Monaco - but they also have a faster car (more downforce)); this route is simply a luxury that McLaren do not have.

[runningmanz]

If the nature of the regulation changes result in a car that is very front limited, there is no way that any team can construct a ‘pointy’ car that is also fast.
The role of the driver is to extract the potential of the car, which means finding the fastest way to pedal it around the track (and adapt their driving accordingly). The gap between Lando and Daniel is quite big, but the consequences of it is amplified significantly by the closeness of the grid.

If that is the case which I haven't heard definitively, I presume there are things they can do to try and compensate even if it is an inherent trait. Like changes to the suspension, front wing, ride height etc, not just playing around with the rear of the car. There is alot of classes of racing that have 18inch + wheels. You telling me they all understeer and can't have a pointy front end?

Also saying the gap between Ricciardo and Lando is quite big is a bit disingenuous and using recency bias imo. Maybe on the scoreboard and a couple of tracks this year but not alot of tracks. You can remove that statement from the first 4 races. The main difference in points is Imola and some from Saudi with Dan's DNF. Those two aren't through a lack of pace either on Dan's part. It is true though that Lando has been a better and more consistent driver again so far this season overall and Dan definitely needs to improve his consistency and performance particularly in qualli.

[MrGapes]

If the nature of the regulation changes result in a car that is very front limited, there is no way that any team can construct a ‘pointy’ car that is also fast.
The role of the driver is to extract the potential of the car, which means finding the fastest way to pedal it around the track (and adapt their driving accordingly). The gap between Lando and Daniel is quite big, but the consequences of it is amplified significantly by the closeness of the grid.

Sure, however I think you are vastly over simplifying the role of the driver. If it was really a case of engineers designing the fastest possible car, irrespective of driver preferences, the teams wouldn’t be investing tens of millions of dollars in “Driver In The Loop” simulators.

You simply can’t ignore the drivers feedback when designing a car as it’s the drivers job to extract the speed from the car.

Yes there needs to be some effort on the part of the drivers to maximise the cars potential, but when there is something fundamentally incompatible with one of your drivers, and the other driver agrees (it doesn’t matter that the other driver is able to get more speed from the car), the team needs to change the car characteristics.

You only need to look at what Daniel did with the Renault in his second year there. He was putting that car into positions on the grid most ppl didn’t think it was capable of. Why, because the team made the driving characteristic changes Daniel requested.

I just want to point out as great as Daniels last stint with Renault was… I don’t understand why everyone thinks that Renault was a horrible --- box… i don’t think it’s fair to Renault…either way it doesn’t matter as many have mentioned these cars will be fundamentally understeery… the design of these newer generation cars just produce downforce in a much more different way than before, resulting in a less loaded front end… you would be sacrificing so much overall performance in search for a brute force loaded front end… instead of going for a radical design change, I think Daniel should try to adapt, because I do think all the cars on the grid are fundamentally the same.

- also not coming at you I understand your a Daniel fan and you have every right to defend your driver

[djos]

I think Lando is a first class driver too, however, he’s had the advantage of growing with the Mclaren Philosophy which Daniel hasn’t had.

[PhillipM]

If that is the case which I haven't heard definitively, I presume there are things they can do to try and compensate even if it is an inherent trait. Like changes to the suspension, front wing, ride height etc, not just playing around with the rear of the car. There is alot of classes of racing that have 18inch + wheels. You telling me they all understeer and can't have a pointy front end?.

A lot of those classes of racing don't have open wheel aero, massively limited front ends, very limited suspension systems and a fixed rearward weight bias.

[Stig14]

I think Lando is a first class driver too, however, he’s had the advantage of growing with the Mclaren Philosophy which Daniel hasn’t had.

What do we mean by the McLaren philosophy here? I'm not sure we can point to this anymore as the reason in the disparity:
-There has been a dramatic rule change between years 1 and 2 on Daniel's McLaren stint, and yet Lando has been better able to get on top of the car early doors. This largely negates any arguments of there being a trait in the McLaren which Lando is more familiar with.
-Daniel did indeed miss a large portion of pre season but even Lando's running in Bahrain was severely compromised and so I don't think we can point to that either.
-Even towards the end of last season Daniel didn't show many signs of performing at Lando's level even with 20+ races in the car to learn it.

IMO McLaren need to judge whether they're happy with this level of performance from Daniel (as they've been very few signs of this kind of form improving). If so, they continue paying him and collecting any associated sponsor income or they look elsewhere. Sounds like any options are on Daniel's side though so will be interesting to see how this shakes out if Zac et al decide they're not happy with what Daniel is able to do in the car.

[PhillipM]

Maybe a straight swap with Sainz when Ferrari get bored

[Stig14]

Maybe a straight swap with Sainz when Ferrari get bored

Although said in jest, I'm sure most of us McLaren fans would take that deal!

[PlatinumZealot]

If the nature of the regulation changes result in a car that is very front limited, there is no way that any team can construct a ‘pointy’ car that is also fast.
The role of the driver is to extract the potential of the car, which means finding the fastest way to pedal it around the track (and adapt their driving accordingly). The gap between Lando and Daniel is quite big, but the consequences of it is amplified significantly by the closeness of the grid.

If that is the case which I haven't heard definitively, I presume there are things they can do to try and compensate even if it is an inherent trait. Like changes to the suspension, front wing, ride height etc, not just playing around with the rear of the car. There is alot of classes of racing that have 18inch + wheels. You telling me they all understeer and can't have a pointy front end?

Also saying the gap between Ricciardo and Lando is quite big is a bit disingenuous and using recency bias imo. Maybe on the scoreboard and a couple of tracks this year but not alot of tracks. You can remove that statement from the first 4 races. The main difference in points is Imola and some from Saudi with Dan's DNF. Those two aren't through a lack of pace either on Dan's part. It is true though that Lando has been a better and more consistent driver again so far this season overall and Dan definitely needs to improve his consistency and performance particularly in qualli.

This!

A good way to uncover Daniel's issues is to look at the types of tracks he was close to Lando in Q and race and the ones that he was not.

[PlatinumZealot]

I think Lando is a first class driver too, however, he’s had the advantage of growing with the Mclaren Philosophy which Daniel hasn’t had.

If we want to go down that road though we could ask why has Carlos Sainz been able to adapt to McLaren quickly and not Daniel?

Like Daniel, Sainz was at Torro Rosso and Renault so we can assume that both drivers managed to get on top of those two car philosphies before they went to McLaren.

Like Sainz, Daniel was slow to adapt at Renault, but at McLaren Daniel immediately faced problems and is still having problems while Sainz flourished. We know It's not down to speed because both guys went against Hulkenberg and Daniel actually did the better job there.

So if my logic is correct I can say is that it's not that Lando or Carlos for that matter, has grown into the McLaren design philosophy, it's that Ricciardk just finds it difficult with that type of car. And we can say with confidence that Sainz is able to adapt to the McLaren quickly because he very likely has a bigger "driving bandwith" for adjusting the way he drives.

[Emag]

I think Lando is a first class driver too, however, he’s had the advantage of growing with the Mclaren Philosophy which Daniel hasn’t had.

If we want to go down that road though we could ask why has Carlos Sainz been able to adapt to McLaren quickly and not Daniel?

Like Daniel, Sainz was at Torro Rosso and Renault so we can assume that both drivers managed to get on top of those two car philosphies before they went to McLaren.

Like Sainz, Daniel was slow to adapt at Renault, but at McLaren Daniel immediately faced problems and is still having problems while Sainz flourished. We know It's not down to speed because both guys went against Hulkenberg and Daniel actually did the better job there.

So if my logic is correct I can say is that it's not that Lando or Carlos for that matter, has grown into the McLaren design philosophy, it's that Ricciardk just finds it difficult with that type of car. And we can say with confidence that Sainz is able to adapt to the McLaren quickly because he very likely has a bigger "driving bandwith" for adjusting the way he drives.

Sainz definitely had issues with McLaren initially though. You would expect a driver like Sainz to beat a rookie Lando relatively comfortably, but that wasn't the case.

It is true however, that Carlos adapted much faster. By the midpoint of 2019 he was outperforming Lando as we all initially expected him to.

[A.J.O]

Sainz also made the commitment of moving to be close by and was always at the factory. He put in the work.

[1m0bius1]

I think its a disgrace to hire a driver and not cater to his driving style through aero philosiphy especially after feedback that he would not be able to perform with that philosiphy

Mclaren basically circlejerked Daniel to get his signature. Monaco where he has been so strong since the start of his career. He is nowhere. That just tells you all you to know. When Daniel is struggling at Monaco where is normally a monster, the car is not going to suit him and he isnt going to adapt to this rather bizarre car philopisiphy. 50m on a driver to not cater to what he needs is a complete waste of time and resources on both sides. Renault was able to do this within 1 season.

Sainz got destroyed by Hulkenberg yet Daniel beat him comfortable at the first time at asking. Why is Mclaren so solidified on this failure of a car philosiphy just to cater to Lando. Makes little sense. Its got them nowhere near the front. I hope Audi buy out this garbage and clean out the technical team. 1 Second gap to the lead car is a Joke.

Daniel struggling at Monaco was so hard to watch. He is normally a top top driver there.

[Slahinki]

McLaren will never build a car to suit any specific driver. No one ever does, it’s not how any of this works. They build the fastest car they are able to at the time and expect the drivers to be able to extract that performance. And considering one of the drivers manages to be fast, it clearly isn’t because there’s no speed in the car.

[Mansell89]

So looking at Baku then, how do we expect to fair?

Seems to be a few people who think we are draggy and therefore may well suffer on the long straight.

I’m not sure myself- Lando was a final corner mistake away from popping us on front row in Monaco and Baku does need grip for a fast lap- as Ferrari were able to show last season when CLC popped it on pole!

I can’t see us threatening Red Bull on race pace and I’m sure Ferraris traction will put them out of reach, but I think we could grab P5 here with a good weekend.