2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

[johnny comelately]

Just spotted this on Linkedin re Daniel : Chief of Optimism
Slightly out of context but typical

[Mansell89]

I know this was posted before but an excellent listen if you still haven’t had chance.

Particularly interesting chat about the wind tunnel situation and impact on development - having the Toyota one in Cologne essentially hindering our “agility” since we can’t simply come up with a new part and jump in and test. James said that is something they are hoping will be the case later this year/early next year. In this cap environment too that must be a huge hinderance so if you think about the fact that these guys are creating sizeable batches of updates without having everything they’d ideally want, and are still landing upgrades which largely do what they expect.

It does give you hope and belief that with the additional tools, this is a team that can finally push forward towards the front.

I think what struck me was the calmness and unity with the team really sure that these next steps in infrastructure is the time when they can make that next step to being regular podium (and beyond) contenders.

[mwillems]

It's hilarious, when Mclaren do take a risk the same people come out of the woodwork and tell us the reason they're not fast is because they're too busy wasting time on "one horse pony tricks" instead of just being good at the fundamentals.

Lets not forget this is a car with some fairly different front floor, brake and pushrods front and rear....but sure, not enough innovation.

You're being unfair. It ended up quite well when they took a risk and went with a new PU supplier in 2015.

I think he was agreeing with you and disagreeing with Edge!

[Lucky]

Key
https://the-race.com/formula-1/mclarens ... roadblock/

[Mansell89]

Key
https://the-race.com/formula-1/mclarens ... roadblock/

Good insight again there. I wonder if the team feel they are high drag or not- we seem to get that impression watching the races but very little in the way of comments from drivers or team.

Be interesting to see if like Mercedes we begin to run the PU that little bit harder as we progress in the season.

[the EDGE]

It's hilarious, when Mclaren do take a risk the same people come out of the woodwork and tell us the reason they're not fast is because they're too busy wasting time on "one horse pony tricks" instead of just being good at the fundamentals.

Lets not forget this is a car with some fairly different front floor, brake and pushrods front and rear....but sure, not enough innovation.

Don't get me wrong, the MCL36 is a great car, so was the 35 & 35m... when compared with the midfield. But its not where McLaren want to be. Quiet simply, in F1 Great is not good enough

I'm not saying McLaren need 'one horse pony tricks', I'm saying the team need to be bold, take risks, and close the gap to the front. Treading water is fine, but they have to swim if they are to close the gap. They are still a second a lap in race pace behind. Lando is still a second a lap behind

What I want to see is speed, determination & innovation like they showed in 2020 when they introduced a raft of updates in time to beat the impending homologation rule, but what I see instead is a team that takes a solid, conventional path to design & development. It is without doubt them most conventional looking car on the grid in 2022. this path will not beat the likes of the top 3

Yes they were bold with the suspension... but not compared to front runner RB with their extreme geometry. that certainly never had anything to do with infrastructure, its clever, bold innovation. look at what Ferrari & Merc have come up with over the past few years, from DAS to high level side-pod intakes, from no-pods & size-zero cooling to low-drag pods. Bold, innovative risk taking IMO

Like I said, Daniel is not the reason the team is not winning. The team is the reason the team is not winning. Daniel has won races recently, McLaren have not (well, at least not without Daniel at the wheel anyway)

Produce a winning car and if Daniel is still off the pace, replace him. until then, I see know reason to replace him, and I'm more concerned he may choose to go elsewhere, as oppose to McLaren choosing to replace him.

it does not matter to me where they finish in WCC, if they're 3rd they get more money, which with the budget cap is of little consequence to a team who are already pushing to have the cap increased, if they finish 5th the get more of the most valuable commodity in F1, something even money can not buy... more CFD & wind-tunnel time

Oh, & I haven't come from behind any woodwork, I have been right here voicing support for McLaren for the last 10 years, sticking by them through thick & thin. I just have a different view to others, & I'm not afraid to share it

[the EDGE]

I think this is the first time ever I've seen this sort of excuse.
You have one driver getting into Q3 and scoring podiums all the time, while the other one is consistently over half a second behind and struggling to get out of Q2, and somehow it's the team's fault? Why did nobody come up with that when Ricciardo wiped the floor with Vettel in 2014, or when Leclerc beat Vettel in his first season driving for Ferarri, or when Schumacher beat Mazepin everywhere last season? Is it possible that Bottas was behind Hamilton all the time because Mercedes specifically designed the car to suit Lewis and screw Bottas over? Did Mercedes design their car for this season to benefit Russell because they didn't want Lewis to get his 8th title?

You seem to miss my point entirely, Ferrari, RB & Merc had cars capable of winning races at the time. McLaren do not.

You have a team that's trying to design a car as fast as they can, and two drivers paid to drive it as fast as possible. If one of them can't do the job it's not anyone's fault but his own.

Its up to all THREE of them to win actually. as soon as 2 of them can & 1 cant, then they have a problem. Until then, McLaren need to work as hard as Daniel, and vice-versa. Blaming one or the other is simply unacceptable IMO

lets not forget, Daniel didn't suddenly forget how to drive overnight, in fact he didn't have any weakness until he got behind the wheel of a McLaren. Pretending the problem is all Daniel is simply wrong

[Motörhead]

It's hilarious, when Mclaren do take a risk the same people come out of the woodwork and tell us the reason they're not fast is because they're too busy wasting time on "one horse pony tricks" instead of just being good at the fundamentals.

Lets not forget this is a car with some fairly different front floor, brake and pushrods front and rear....but sure, not enough innovation.

Don't get me wrong, the MCL36 is a great car, so was the 35 & 35m... when compared with the midfield. But its not where McLaren want to be. Quiet simply, in F1 Great is not good enough

I'm not saying McLaren need 'one horse pony tricks', I'm saying the team need to be bold, take risks, and close the gap to the front. Treading water is fine, but they have to swim if they are to close the gap. They are still a second a lap in race pace behind. Lando is still a second a lap behind

What I want to see is speed, determination & innovation like they showed in 2020 when they introduced a raft of updates in time to beat the impending homologation rule, but what I see instead is a team that takes a solid, conventional path to design & development. It is without doubt them most conventional looking car on the grid in 2022. this path will not beat the likes of the top 3

Yes they were bold with the suspension... but not compared to front runner RB with their extreme geometry. that certainly never had anything to do with infrastructure, its clever, bold innovation. look at what Ferrari & Merc have come up with over the past few years, from DAS to high level side-pod intakes, from no-pods & size-zero cooling to low-drag pods. Bold, innovative risk taking IMO

Like I said, Daniel is not the reason the team is not winning. The team is the reason the team is not winning. Daniel has won races recently, McLaren have not (well, at least not without Daniel at the wheel anyway)

Produce a winning car and if Daniel is still off the pace, replace him. until then, I see know reason to replace him, and I'm more concerned he may choose to go elsewhere, as oppose to McLaren choosing to replace him.

it does not matter to me where they finish in WCC, if they're 3rd they get more money, which with the budget cap is of little consequence to a team who are already pushing to have the cap increased, if they finish 5th the get more of the most valuable commodity in F1, something even money can not buy... more CFD & wind-tunnel time

Oh, & I haven't come from behind any woodwork, I have been right here voicing support for McLaren for the last 10 years, sticking by them through thick & thin. I just have a different view to others, & I'm not afraid to share it

I think it's a concerted effort not to try to run before you walk. As has been implied by Zak and James Key several times now.......
It's clear they have a plan and a timetable. Zak believes they have everyone in place to fulfil this, just not quite the infrastructure, yet. i.e. the simulator and the wind tunnel.
The plan is to challenge for wins and eventually championships by 2024, when everything is in place and fully bedded in.
The simulator will pay off as soon as it's up and running, the wind tunnel could be a little longer due to calibration and confidence that there's good correlation between CFD, Wind tunnel and track.
Having a Wind tunnel on site will help with reaction times.

Looking back historically, (yes, with another team of people, granted.) when Mclaren were bold and changed the concept of a winning car that was able to challenge for championships to, in their view, get a jump on the rest of the grid, it failed miserably. And it has taken them this long to get back to the front of the midfield.

One small slip in this business can almost ruin you. Sponsors disappear etc.

In the meantime, they are trying to build a race car that's inherently stable and well understood. So they can build upon that platform.

Slightly off topic here but regarding previous comments on Danny Ric. (Love him by the way)

It doesn't matter who your drivers are. Drivers are drivers. Yes, you want what you feel is the best line-up They are expected to be fast, as they are the best in the world. They have driven in all Formulas, from Karts to the ultimate. F1. All with varying characteristics. Understeer or oversteer.

All this talk of designing a car around a driver is complete poppycock. You first design, what you think is a fast car. Then with the drivers input, you make them as happy as they can be within that car. Then it's up to them.

Basically, in this case, Lando did have an advantage with the 35A and the 35M, learning their characteristics. Danny came in and, yes, it was different to what he was used to and Carlos confirmed that.
But the basic fact is Lando is damn fast and it's been a shock for him. He's been playing catch-up and he can't. And it's affecting his psych. Drivers don't like to be beaten by their team-mates and he can't get anywhere near him. Yes unlucky this year with Covid in testing but he didn't miss out on much, no long runs, no race pace data.
He should be up there now pace wise and I think 90% of it is in his head.

Let's hope he can sort it pronto. He has all the support of the team behind the scenes, contrary to what people might be saying.
Mclaren want a Danny Ric that's on fire. Pure and simple.

[JPower]

It's hilarious, when Mclaren do take a risk the same people come out of the woodwork and tell us the reason they're not fast is because they're too busy wasting time on "one horse pony tricks" instead of just being good at the fundamentals.

Lets not forget this is a car with some fairly different front floor, brake and pushrods front and rear....but sure, not enough innovation.

Don't get me wrong, the MCL36 is a great car, so was the 35 & 35m... when compared with the midfield. But its not where McLaren want to be. Quiet simply, in F1 Great is not good enough

I'm not saying McLaren need 'one horse pony tricks', I'm saying the team need to be bold, take risks, and close the gap to the front. Treading water is fine, but they have to swim if they are to close the gap. They are still a second a lap in race pace behind. Lando is still a second a lap behind

What I want to see is speed, determination & innovation like they showed in 2020 when they introduced a raft of updates in time to beat the impending homologation rule, but what I see instead is a team that takes a solid, conventional path to design & development. It is without doubt them most conventional looking car on the grid in 2022. this path will not beat the likes of the top 3

Yes they were bold with the suspension... but not compared to front runner RB with their extreme geometry. that certainly never had anything to do with infrastructure, its clever, bold innovation. look at what Ferrari & Merc have come up with over the past few years, from DAS to high level side-pod intakes, from no-pods & size-zero cooling to low-drag pods. Bold, innovative risk taking IMO

Like I said, Daniel is not the reason the team is not winning. The team is the reason the team is not winning. Daniel has won races recently, McLaren have not (well, at least not without Daniel at the wheel anyway)

Produce a winning car and if Daniel is still off the pace, replace him. until then, I see know reason to replace him, and I'm more concerned he may choose to go elsewhere, as oppose to McLaren choosing to replace him.

it does not matter to me where they finish in WCC, if they're 3rd they get more money, which with the budget cap is of little consequence to a team who are already pushing to have the cap increased, if they finish 5th the get more of the most valuable commodity in F1, something even money can not buy... more CFD & wind-tunnel time

Oh, & I haven't come from behind any woodwork, I have been right here voicing support for McLaren for the last 10 years, sticking by them through thick & thin. I just have a different view to others, & I'm not afraid to share it

The designs produced by Ferrari, RB, and Merc absolutely are down to infrastructure.

They have the wind tunnel, computing power, and engineering talent to make those designs come to life. They have the ability to create and execute on daring design because of their infrastructure.

Other teams don’t and can’t do it because they don’t have the resources. McLaren isn’t at the point where they are matching the top 3 off the track yet.

[the EDGE]

It's hilarious, when Mclaren do take a risk the same people come out of the woodwork and tell us the reason they're not fast is because they're too busy wasting time on "one horse pony tricks" instead of just being good at the fundamentals.

Lets not forget this is a car with some fairly different front floor, brake and pushrods front and rear....but sure, not enough innovation.

Don't get me wrong, the MCL36 is a great car, so was the 35 & 35m... when compared with the midfield. But its not where McLaren want to be. Quiet simply, in F1 Great is not good enough

I'm not saying McLaren need 'one horse pony tricks', I'm saying the team need to be bold, take risks, and close the gap to the front. Treading water is fine, but they have to swim if they are to close the gap. They are still a second a lap in race pace behind. Lando is still a second a lap behind

What I want to see is speed, determination & innovation like they showed in 2020 when they introduced a raft of updates in time to beat the impending homologation rule, but what I see instead is a team that takes a solid, conventional path to design & development. It is without doubt them most conventional looking car on the grid in 2022. this path will not beat the likes of the top 3

Yes they were bold with the suspension... but not compared to front runner RB with their extreme geometry. that certainly never had anything to do with infrastructure, its clever, bold innovation. look at what Ferrari & Merc have come up with over the past few years, from DAS to high level side-pod intakes, from no-pods & size-zero cooling to low-drag pods. Bold, innovative risk taking IMO

Like I said, Daniel is not the reason the team is not winning. The team is the reason the team is not winning. Daniel has won races recently, McLaren have not (well, at least not without Daniel at the wheel anyway)

Produce a winning car and if Daniel is still off the pace, replace him. until then, I see know reason to replace him, and I'm more concerned he may choose to go elsewhere, as oppose to McLaren choosing to replace him.

it does not matter to me where they finish in WCC, if they're 3rd they get more money, which with the budget cap is of little consequence to a team who are already pushing to have the cap increased, if they finish 5th the get more of the most valuable commodity in F1, something even money can not buy... more CFD & wind-tunnel time

Oh, & I haven't come from behind any woodwork, I have been right here voicing support for McLaren for the last 10 years, sticking by them through thick & thin. I just have a different view to others, & I'm not afraid to share it

The designs produced by Ferrari, RB, and Merc absolutely are down to infrastructure.

They have the wind tunnel, computing power, and engineering talent to make those designs come to life. They have the ability to create and execute on daring design because of their infrastructure.

Other teams don’t and can’t do it because they don’t have the resources. McLaren isn’t at the point where they are matching the top 3 off the track yet.

Not sure how pro-dive suspension geometry, DAS, size-zero cooling, and hi-side pod inlets that managed to copy requires better infrastructure?

[PhillipM]

Is this where I point out that those innovative Merc sidepods are on a car that's often slower than the Mclaren then?
That the geometry is not radical on the RB, just different?

[Emag]

RedBull's suspension is unique in terms of layout, but that's not really the most impressive part of that car.

If I were to pick out a "radical" element of the RedBull I would pick the floor strake configuration. Before CopyPoint came along with their version, RedBull's underfloor configuration was by far the most unique implementation of that area. And they also have a very unique body-aero (in terms of sidepods) to back that up.

Compare that to Ferrari for example, which visually speaking has nothing "bold" or "striking" in their car apart from their bathtub sidepod configuration. The underfloor of the Ferrari looks basic in comparison to what RedBull has done with theirs.

And then there's the other point to consider. These "striking" or "cool" looking details you see at these cars are never the sole reason for their speed. The ultimate speed always has to do with the combination of multiple details in a concept, both mechanical and aerodynamical.

And to be honest, just because something looks complex or advanced, it doesn't necessarily mean it's going to perform the best. Sometimes the simplest option is the best. So just because you don't see anything "cool" when you look at the McLaren, it doesn't automatically make the car slow.

But that's beside the point anyway, because you are claiming McLaren has the most basic car in the grid (which is in itself kind of a contradiction because the most "basic" car of the 2022 grid is beating 6 other teams with apparently more "advance" concepts). And to be honest with you, McLaren is definitely not the most basic 2022 car in this grid. There is plenty going on in that car. They may not be as visually striking as Mercedes' zero-pod, the Ferrari's bathrub sidepods or RedBull's crazy floor, but that doesn't mean they are not there.

Also, technicalities aside, even visually speaking, if you were to ask me which is the most basic car of the 2022 grid. I would personally pick Aston Marting (before their change), primarily because there is absolutely nothing daring in putting a huge undercut in your car (Williams did it first in 2018, albeit not to the same extent). With Haas coming in at a close second as the most basic-looking car of this grid.

[JPower]

Not sure how pro-dive suspension geometry, DAS, size-zero cooling, and hi-side pod inlets that managed to copy requires better infrastructure?

None of those concepts exists in a vacuum. They are part of a vehicle concept. The concept needs tools like an up to date advanced wind tunnel and simulation platform to validate. If you don't have the latter two to make the radical concepts perform, then you will naturally shy away from them and create designs that can be executed and validated.

[the EDGE]

Is this where I point out that those innovative Merc sidepods are on a car that's often slower than the Mclaren then?
That the geometry is not radical on the RB, just different?

I would say we’re still to see the true potential of mercs pods, if there is potential at all, but the magic is really with the cooling packaging/efficiency, and has been for some time.

And look, I am no engineer, and do not claim to be anything more than an armchair enthusiast, but IMO McLaren have run a good, and reliable suspension set up for sometime, however I feel that in terms of the suspensions affect on providing the best possible platform for aerodynamics

McLaren have probably been a chunk behind the leading teams for a good few years. What Red Bull have managed to do this year, is claw back some of the characteristics from the now-prohibited hydraulic suspension system

It’s little things like this that find some of the difference between the midfield and the front

But all of this detracts from my point, because I had no intention of discussing the ability of McLaren to produce a winning car, and I merely stated that they needed to be more bold, And not to be afraid to make mistakes

For many years we only asked McLaren to be fighting for podiums, they have now achieved that, the goalposts now need to be moved further forward. The team need to make the step and fight for wins

My point I will go back to, is that IMO, Daniel is not the teams priority at the moment, and perhaps finding a solution to his problems would go someway to moving the team forward

[PhillipM]

Yes, more bold than brake cooling so on the edge they had to run it with a jury rigged setup for a few races, you mean?

The RB raked wishbones have ZERO relevance to interlinked hydraulic suspension, they've not 'gained something back' - there's no relation between what they are doing there. Geometry is always a compromise.