Mercedes W13

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
User avatar
PlatinumZealot
559
Joined: 12 Jun 2008, 03:45

Re: Mercedes W13

Post

They will bring solutions for next season's car into this year, budget permitting. Same reason why we are seeing them using cheap materials and patches for upgrades so far, the big upgrade is too much cost in the budget cap to expedite the manufacture only to get it wrong. They have to keep experimenting until the windtunnel results are bullet-proof.
πŸ–οΈβœŒοΈβ˜οΈπŸ‘€πŸ‘ŒβœοΈπŸŽπŸ†πŸ™

Racing Green in 2028

User avatar
PlatinumZealot
559
Joined: 12 Jun 2008, 03:45

Re: Mercedes W13

Post

Mercedes will need this to seal the sides of the floor when the ride height is raised. The so called fake bargeboard.

Image

The inlet vanes should aslo be scalloped so that air is tumbled inside them to lower the pressure.

Like rRedBull they should arch the underside of the floor creating a vault shape so that the vortices can have stronger support at "sweeping" away the upper boundary layer (Adding kinetic emergy) and lowering overall pressure.

I feel this is how RedBull are managing low pressures without slamming the floor to the road.
πŸ–οΈβœŒοΈβ˜οΈπŸ‘€πŸ‘ŒβœοΈπŸŽπŸ†πŸ™

Racing Green in 2028

djones
djones
20
Joined: 17 Mar 2005, 15:01

Re: Mercedes W13

Post

Second floor supports have been removed for fear of protest.

So what was already looking pretty horrific will presumably be even worse.

I’ll be surprised if both Mercs get to Q1.

maxxer
maxxer
1
Joined: 13 May 2013, 12:01

Re: Mercedes W13

Post

Seeing the caliper position on the merc i wonder wouldnt it be better to have it between the 90 - 180 position ?
now its between the 180 - 300 position i think

User avatar
AMG.Tzan
43
Joined: 24 Jan 2013, 01:35
Location: Greece

Re: Mercedes W13

Post

After 3 races in 3 quite different track layouts (though all of them bumpy) it's quite clear that Barcelona's upgrade hasn't done much to improve this car...

The main problem I think is suspension and not so much the floor! If they manage to build a better suspension system like Red Bull's then they'll solve over half of their problems (too stiff suspension --> bouncing + porpoising --> uncomfortable ride --> less confidence for the drivers)

Anyway, I don't see this concept working any time soon! They'll need a whole new aero and suspension concept for 2023 to even be able to fight RB and Ferrari...
"The only rule is there are no rules" - Aristotle Onassis

User avatar
Mr5in1
0
Joined: 20 Jul 2012, 11:33

Re: Mercedes W13

Post

Did Mercedes run 2 different wing configurations for data comparison, very surprised they would do that for qualy and race.

Noticed Lewis ran a much skinnier low DF wing to George, might account for some of his slower wet time gaps today.

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
365
Joined: 06 Jul 2021, 01:22

Re: Mercedes W13

Post

AMG.Tzan wrote: ↑
19 Jun 2022, 00:04
After 3 races in 3 quite different track layouts (though all of them bumpy) it's quite clear that Barcelona's upgrade hasn't done much to improve this car...

The main problem I think is suspension and not so much the floor! If they manage to build a better suspension system like Red Bull's then they'll solve over half of their problems (too stiff suspension --> bouncing + porpoising --> uncomfortable ride --> less confidence for the drivers)

Anyway, I don't see this concept working any time soon! They'll need a whole new aero and suspension concept for 2023 to even be able to fight RB and Ferrari...
I'm not convinced it's suspension (well, this is circular..). Aston Martin have the same suspension as Mercedes and don't have the problems ever since they brought the new package.

It's more a case of, suspension and aero package being incompatible. One can attack the problem in two ways. Fix aero, or fix suspension. It doesn't mean one is bad. It just means they are incompatible with one another. Suspension is working fine on the ASton Martin.
A lion must kill its prey.

User avatar
pursue_one's
97
Joined: 28 Mar 2021, 04:50

Re: Mercedes W13

Post

Lewis has a low downforce setup in Quali

Image

GrizzleBoy
GrizzleBoy
33
Joined: 05 Mar 2012, 04:06

Re: Mercedes W13

Post

pursue_one's wrote: ↑
19 Jun 2022, 00:35
Lewis has a low downforce setup in Quali

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FVkK40nVEAAAiGC?format=jpg
Was wondering why I felt there was such a consistent difference in their lap times.

Will be interesting to see which setup works best for race pace.

Canada is a stop-go type of track with long straights that can give or take a lot of laptime and positions when racing so I'd assume low downforce but hey these cars arent exactly behaving like you'd expect.

Also, was Lewis or Russel suffering more bouncing than the other, if any?

User avatar
PlatinumZealot
559
Joined: 12 Jun 2008, 03:45

Re: Mercedes W13

Post

Both Bounce, Lewis more on the straight, George "hopping" in turn 9 as he said on the radio (FP2)
Last edited by PlatinumZealot on 19 Jun 2022, 02:09, edited 1 time in total.
πŸ–οΈβœŒοΈβ˜οΈπŸ‘€πŸ‘ŒβœοΈπŸŽπŸ†πŸ™

Racing Green in 2028

User avatar
organic
1055
Joined: 08 Jan 2022, 02:24
Location: Cambridge, UK

Re: Mercedes W13

Post

PlatinumZealot wrote: ↑
19 Jun 2022, 02:08
Both Bounce, Lewis more on the straight, George bouncing in turn 9 IIRC.
Can confirm Lewis' car was bouncing more on the straight than George. Unsure about where George was bouncing the most

User avatar
214270
18
Joined: 27 Apr 2019, 18:49

Re: Mercedes W13

Post

pursue_one's wrote: ↑
19 Jun 2022, 00:35
Lewis has a low downforce setup in Quali

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FVkK40nVEAAAiGC?format=jpg
HAM didn’t drive that wing config in FP3, no? That means he’s tasked with validating the new floor in 1. In 2 they give him an experimental setup; 3 is washed out, but they still change the wing again for quali. No real opportunity to bed in all wkend, but hey… here’s another spec you’ve never driven, just in time for fast laps in quali! Madness
Team ANTI-HYPE. Prove it, then I’ll anoint you.

GrizzleBoy
GrizzleBoy
33
Joined: 05 Mar 2012, 04:06

Re: Mercedes W13

Post

organic wrote: ↑
19 Jun 2022, 02:09
PlatinumZealot wrote: ↑
19 Jun 2022, 02:08
Both Bounce, Lewis more on the straight, George bouncing in turn 9 IIRC.
Can confirm Lewis' car was bouncing more on the straight than George. Unsure about where George was bouncing the most
Interesting then, as more downforce usually creates more bouncing, but Lewis is bouncing more with the lower downforce wing.

Maybe different wings require different suspension stiffness.

zibby43
zibby43
613
Joined: 04 Mar 2017, 12:16

Re: Mercedes W13

Post

AR3-GP wrote: ↑
19 Jun 2022, 00:17
AMG.Tzan wrote: ↑
19 Jun 2022, 00:04
After 3 races in 3 quite different track layouts (though all of them bumpy) it's quite clear that Barcelona's upgrade hasn't done much to improve this car...

The main problem I think is suspension and not so much the floor! If they manage to build a better suspension system like Red Bull's then they'll solve over half of their problems (too stiff suspension --> bouncing + porpoising --> uncomfortable ride --> less confidence for the drivers)

Anyway, I don't see this concept working any time soon! They'll need a whole new aero and suspension concept for 2023 to even be able to fight RB and Ferrari...
I'm not convinced it's suspension (well, this is circular..). Aston Martin have the same suspension as Mercedes and don't have the problems ever since they brought the new package.

It's more a case of, suspension and aero package being incompatible. One can attack the problem in two ways. Fix aero, or fix suspension. It doesn't mean one is bad. It just means they are incompatible with one another. Suspension is working fine on the ASton Martin.
If by working you mean miles off the pace of the front-running teams, then yes, it’s working.

From the team thread:

Sky Germany: James Allison says Mercedes are unhappy with suspension and aero. He says they know their issues and are going in the right direction. It will take time, though, as it's not going to get fixed overnight. But he appreciates the drivers, saying how patient they are.

So it appears both facets are not working right now.

mrluke
mrluke
33
Joined: 22 Nov 2013, 20:31

Re: Mercedes W13

Post

GrizzleBoy wrote: ↑
19 Jun 2022, 07:08
organic wrote: ↑
19 Jun 2022, 02:09
PlatinumZealot wrote: ↑
19 Jun 2022, 02:08
Both Bounce, Lewis more on the straight, George bouncing in turn 9 IIRC.
Can confirm Lewis' car was bouncing more on the straight than George. Unsure about where George was bouncing the most
Interesting then, as more downforce usually creates more bouncing, but Lewis is bouncing more with the lower downforce wing.

Maybe different wings require different suspension stiffness.
Isn't the bouncing a product of speed? Smaller wings would be higher speed and potentially more bounce?