Mercedes W13

[Andi76]

When you consider McLaren and Williams similar to Mercedes, you're missing one big point. Mercedes have this big 'wing support' flow conditioner there.
McLaren and Williams could not copy Mercedes, because that requires a different placement of the side impact structure. So the only way they to get more flow conditioning is bigger sidepods.
Mercedes can easily go big sidepods, the step from Barcelona pre season is just some bodywork. But they did not, so they must see a benefit of the current design.

Mercedes cannot go easily to big sidepods. Their sidepod-inlets go all the way down the floor. They would have to change their cooling system and packaging and aero completely, as they would lack even more outwash(what already is one of the problems).We already had that several times here and it was explained why its not possible and even makes no sense.

Are you conveniently forgetting that they ran a car with the more common high cooling inlets earlier this season?
https://i.imgur.com/NESgzRr.png

They can run high cooling inlets again if they wanted to, and they could have high sidepods tops too, if they wanted to. The sidepods would be mostly empty volume and would be nothing more than an aero-skin, but they could do it if they wanted to.

Mercedes is the one team that can go to the other sidepod extreme - Red Bull and Ferrari can't go to micro-pods because their sidepods are full of kit which would have to be moved. Mercedes can just build big sidepod shells if they want to with no real issue.

I did not forget that. But i won't explain again why its not possible. There are several reasons. I already did this a few weeks ago in detail. If you are interested, you can go back and read it. If not - just forget it and keep thinking they can.

[smith100s]

Mercedes will have learnt so much this weekend after debuting the suspension changes. Hopefully they will be able to work.on switching on the tyres faster.

[cplchanb]

F1 flexi-floor exploit revelations a "shocker", says Mercedes

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/f1-fl ... /10332159/

Mercedes trackside engineering director Andrew Shovlin reckoned that the change could help move his squad nearer the front.

"When it came to light, we realised there's opportunities that we've perhaps not been taking or exploiting," he said.

and yet, teams will be allowed to retain those points unlawfully gained.

Thing is they can't prove when these flexifloors first came to be unless they've been checked in detail and logged since bahrain. Most they could do realistically is dq them for the session like they did for ham in Brazil last year.

[wesley123]

I did not forget that. But i won't explain again why its not possible. There are several reasons. I already did this a few weeks ago in detail. If you are interested, you can go back and read it. If not - just forget it and keep thinking they can.

Literally your sole argument is "it is different than the rest of the grid", the rest is just made up stuff added to it in a similar fashion that conspiracy theorists do. And those that aren't conspiracy-like are just plain wrong.

Here we have a few;

Mercedes cannot go easily to big sidepods. Their sidepod-inlets go all the way down the floor. They would have to change their cooling system and packaging and aero completely

This was just plain wrong, and your response to being called out on that was the following;

I did not forget that. But i won't explain again why its not possible.

It's hilarious that you would write that as a response to a picture of it being done on the W13 in real life.

Then we have this gem a few pages back;

You can deny whats obvious, but that does not change the fact that this design has obvious shortcomings.

You are literally the sole person still arguing the sidepods, but have bought absolutely nothing to actually back it up. So please, either come with actual evidence supporting your claims, or just shut up, because this is getting pretty annoying.

[Andi76]

I did not forget that. But i won't explain again why its not possible. There are several reasons. I already did this a few weeks ago in detail. If you are interested, you can go back and read it. If not - just forget it and keep thinking they can.

Literally your sole argument is "it is different than the rest of the grid", the rest is just made up stuff added to it in a similar fashion that conspiracy theorists do. And those that aren't conspiracy-like are just plain wrong.

Here we have a few;

Mercedes cannot go easily to big sidepods. Their sidepod-inlets go all the way down the floor. They would have to change their cooling system and packaging and aero completely

This was just plain wrong, and your response to being called out on that was the following;

I did not forget that. But i won't explain again why its not possible.

It's hilarious that you would write that as a response to a picture of it being done on the W13 in real life.

Then we have this gem a few pages back;

You can deny whats obvious, but that does not change the fact that this design has obvious shortcomings.

You are literally the sole person still arguing the sidepods, but have bought absolutely nothing to actually back it up. So please, either come with actual evidence supporting your claims, or just shut up, because this is getting pretty annoying.

Conspiracy-like? Not really, as all you ask me for - i have done this about three or four weeks ago in this topic. Even the "go big sidepod" thing. But anyway - the shortcomings of this design were also explained by experts and aerodynamicists on several motorsport media pages and also in this forum. So, next to the performance deficit, the evidence you ask for is widely available and i have already "backed up my claims with evidence". Even twice. Sorry but i hope you understand i lack the time to write for a third time a 30 min. explaination with evidence supporting my "claims". I am sorry. So if you are interested - go back and read it. It all there, here in this topic.

And please - do not tell me to shut up. I shut up when i like to. If it annoyes you what i write - don't read it. Or read it and just deal with it.

[AA_2019]

I think the flexi floor is being misunderstood. Earlier I mentioned the floor may have a suspension. It is for this purpose, to flex the floor where the plank is. The flexing is not about the floppy parts on the ends. You want to flex the part that touches the ground to have better control of the distance from the track; since its a solid body thats giving it that control.
What I think also enhances this, is the ridges on the step plane on the redbull and ferrari. Redbull have the ridges to the front and Ferrari have the ridges to the rear. The floor will have stress concentration at the ridges, and it's flex can be controlled very precisely. Ferrari is controlling flex at the diffuser, redbull is doing it at the entrance to the floor.

https://cdn-6.motorsport.com/images/mgl ... loor-1.jpg

The flexing is happening at 1,2,3

When Max damaged the underfloor today with debris, we saw how much slower he was, however his car still had no bouncing which suggests their lack of bouncing is not due to clever aero but rather other things such as a flexi floor. Your description if true would indicate the RB's floor helps in this area.

[wesley123]

But anyway - the shortcomings of this design were also explained by experts and aerodynamicists on several motorsport media pages and also in this forum.

At best this was at the start of the season, now everyone has realized that basing performance issues on a single thing is --- dumb. People have also realized that aero issues are solved and the issues largely appears to be mechanical.

So, next to the performance deficit, the evidence you ask for is widely available and i have already "backed up my claims with evidence". Even twice. Unfortunately i lack the time to write for a third time a 30 min. explaination with evidence supporting my "claims". I am sorry. So if you are interested - go back and read it. It all there, here in this topic.

You have not given anything, only repeating the same thing over and over.

But please, enlighten us all on your superior abilities.

And please - do not tell me to shut up. I shut up when i like to. If it annoyes you what i write - don't read it. Or read it and just deal with it.

You are doing nothing more than just circlejerking. It’s not even possible to actually discuss the subject you are so obviously even better informed about than the actual creators of the vehicle.

It’s nothing more than you just repeating the same thing over and over, acting like a typical conspiracy theorist would.

In case you haven’t noticed; this is a technical forum, please actually engage in it as such.

[ringo]

I think the flexi floor is being misunderstood. Earlier I mentioned the floor may have a suspension. It is for this purpose, to flex the floor where the plank is. The flexing is not about the floppy parts on the ends. You want to flex the part that touches the ground to have better control of the distance from the track; since its a solid body thats giving it that control.
What I think also enhances this, is the ridges on the step plane on the redbull and ferrari. Redbull have the ridges to the front and Ferrari have the ridges to the rear. The floor will have stress concentration at the ridges, and it's flex can be controlled very precisely. Ferrari is controlling flex at the diffuser, redbull is doing it at the entrance to the floor.

https://cdn-6.motorsport.com/images/mgl ... loor-1.jpg

The flexing is happening at 1,2,3

When Max damaged the underfloor today with debris, we saw how much slower he was, however his car still had no bouncing which suggests their lack of bouncing is not due to clever aero but rather other things such as a flexi floor. Your description if true would indicate the RB's floor helps in this area.

The car didnt bounce because its ride height was very high after the floor damage. That's how much load they lost at the rear.
I could see right through underneath.

[ringo]

This W13 will challenge for wins with these sidrpods.
I would like to see the experts undo all their theories. lol

[cplchanb]

But anyway - the shortcomings of this design were also explained by experts and aerodynamicists on several motorsport media pages and also in this forum.

At best this was at the start of the season, now everyone has realized that basing performance issues on a single thing is --- dumb. People have also realized that aero issues are solved and the issues largely appears to be mechanical.

So, next to the performance deficit, the evidence you ask for is widely available and i have already "backed up my claims with evidence". Even twice. Unfortunately i lack the time to write for a third time a 30 min. explaination with evidence supporting my "claims". I am sorry. So if you are interested - go back and read it. It all there, here in this topic.

You have not given anything, only repeating the same thing over and over.

But please, enlighten us all on your superior abilities.

And please - do not tell me to shut up. I shut up when i like to. If it annoyes you what i write - don't read it. Or read it and just deal with it.

You are doing nothing more than just circlejerking. It’s not even possible to actually discuss the subject you are so obviously even better informed about than the actual creators of the vehicle.

It’s nothing more than you just repeating the same thing over and over, acting like a typical conspiracy theorist would.

In case you haven’t noticed; this is a technical forum, please actually engage in it as such.

i think the only way Andi will concede is if the w13 wins the wcc. anything short of it will be grounds for his stance

[Shrieker]

Was the w13 consistently faster thru the corners yesterday, given the fact that how slow they were on the straights ? Lewis even lost out to Norris on the wellington straight easily ( Norris had some slipstream but not a significant one) so it can't really be the engine can it. I'd love to see an analysis.

In light of that, feels like this car is draggier than the rest still, but at least now they can make use of the downforce they have.

[carisi2k]

Can someone explain to me why there is so much about the RB18 on this thread of the W13. There seems to be some people with agenda's here with no evidence to their assertions. I hope the moderators clean this and other threads of all this hyperbole and false accusations towards Red Bull.

[214270]

Was the w13 consistently faster thru the corners yesterday, given the fact that how slow they were on the straights ? Lewis even lost out to Norris on the wellington straight easily ( Norris had some slipstream but not a significant one) so it can't really be the engine can it. I'd love to see an analysis.

In light of that, feels like this car is draggier than the rest still, but at least now they can make use of the downforce they have.

NOR out-dragged him, LEC out-dragged him, PER easily out-dragged him.

It’s the reason waayy back when advocating a concept change. It’s a concept you undertake when you can mitigate the excess drag with superior punch from the PU. For whatever reason that’s not the case this year, making for an interesting conundrum.

[e30ernest]

Was the w13 consistently faster thru the corners yesterday, given the fact that how slow they were on the straights ? Lewis even lost out to Norris on the wellington straight easily ( Norris had some slipstream but not a significant one) so it can't really be the engine can it. I'd love to see an analysis.

In light of that, feels like this car is draggier than the rest still, but at least now they can make use of the downforce they have.

NOR out-dragged him, LEC out-dragged him, PER easily out-dragged him.

It’s the reason waayy back when advocating a concept change. It’s a concept you undertake when you can mitigate the excess drag with superior punch from the PU. For whatever reason that’s not the case this year, making for an interesting conundrum.

I think both examples weren't really due to drag at all but due to traction. On both instances where this happened, it was early after a restart when the tires were cold. It appears the W13 in Silverstone at least had issues with tire warm-up. On the up-side, it looked to be very kind on its tires (allowing Lewis to stay out that long on the first stint).

I believe this is OT to the car thread though. Sorry if this is the case.

[zibby43]

I did not forget that. But i won't explain again why its not possible. There are several reasons. I already did this a few weeks ago in detail. If you are interested, you can go back and read it. If not - just forget it and keep thinking they can.

Literally your sole argument is "it is different than the rest of the grid", the rest is just made up stuff added to it in a similar fashion that conspiracy theorists do. And those that aren't conspiracy-like are just plain wrong.

Here we have a few;

Mercedes cannot go easily to big sidepods. Their sidepod-inlets go all the way down the floor. They would have to change their cooling system and packaging and aero completely

This was just plain wrong, and your response to being called out on that was the following;

I did not forget that. But i won't explain again why its not possible.

It's hilarious that you would write that as a response to a picture of it being done on the W13 in real life.

Then we have this gem a few pages back;

You can deny whats obvious, but that does not change the fact that this design has obvious shortcomings.

You are literally the sole person still arguing the sidepods, but have bought absolutely nothing to actually back it up. So please, either come with actual evidence supporting your claims, or just shut up, because this is getting pretty annoying.

Conspiracy-like? Not really, as all you ask me for - i have done this about three or four weeks ago in this topic. Even the "go big sidepod" thing. But anyway - the shortcomings of this design were also explained by experts and aerodynamicists on several motorsport media pages and also in this forum. So, next to the performance deficit, the evidence you ask for is widely available and i have already "backed up my claims with evidence". Even twice. Sorry but i hope you understand i lack the time to write for a third time a 30 min. explaination with evidence supporting my "claims". I am sorry. So if you are interested - go back and read it. It all there, here in this topic.

And please - do not tell me to shut up. I shut up when i like to. If it annoyes you what i write - don't read it. Or read it and just deal with it.

I can only think of one person that highlighted the “drag” issue with the current sidepod design.

The analysis was sound, for the model rendered.

It did not take into account other furniture and design choices on the actual car that could mitigate that very issue. As a result, I wouldn’t hang by hat on the drag argument (like, at all).