This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
There is some new evidence had you are willing to check them out for the reason why both drivers had issues in Q3 ...
In both Q1 and Q2 HAM & RUS were fuelled for some 8-9 laps in order to do some 2 or 3 hot laps bearing in mind that they needed 2 laps to warm up the soft tyres ... then in Q3 the cars were fuelled up for only 4 laps which led to not enough load and a slighter raised car with negative consequences:
- a lower downforce level from the Venturi tunnels and
- light bottoming in high-speed corners something they didn`t get rid of yet ...
How many mm's do you think one of those cars will lift up if you take off 4 laps of fuel? I reckon you will be in region of 3-3.5kg of fuel difference there given the specific gravity of fuel is 0.750kg.
Both drivers said they made a mistake. Lewis went in too fast (+10km/h according to Toto), and George too aggressive in the kerb in 10. There's no need to search for elaborate alternate excuses. All cars are dealing with variations in rideheight and bottoming.
I originally thought the same after watching the post-quali interviews from Lewis and George but then you have to think firstly how often do you see Lewis lose complete control of the car and smash into the wall, then secondly for it to happen in a very similar way to George (two of the best drivers on the grid), on the same track, in the same session with the same car and in dry conditions. For me, I think it's too much of a coincidence for it to be just a "mistake" by the drivers. We know this car is not perfect and they are having to make compromises with setups and balance, so my guess is there is something or some characteristic of the car that is not behaving or communicating with the drivers in the way they would expect.
There is some new evidence had you are willing to check them out for the reason why both drivers had issues in Q3 ...
In both Q1 and Q2 HAM & RUS were fuelled for some 8-9 laps in order to do some 2 or 3 hot laps bearing in mind that they needed 2 laps to warm up the soft tyres ... then in Q3 the cars were fuelled up for only 4 laps which led to not enough load and a slighter raised car with negative consequences:
- a lower downforce level from the Venturi tunnels and
- light bottoming in high-speed corners something they didn`t get rid of yet ...
All these above-mentioned were in conjunction with the soft tyres that were not enough warmed up thus providing less grip, that`s why HAM was aborting the first hot lap even though he set the fastest S1 time up until then ...
This issue with the warm-up phase it`s just a double-edged sword for having troubles at the starts/restarts and advantages with tyre management but what`s interesting to know is whether is down to the race setup they choose or just down to the stiff suspension they need to set up the car for these new ground effect cars ...
It could be down to brake caliper shroud design as well. Notice how redbull evolves the design of their brake covers over the season so far. I dont think merc are doing much on that front. The shrouds play a big role into putting heat into the tyres especially with bigger rims than last year
There is some new evidence had you are willing to check them out for the reason why both drivers had issues in Q3 ...
In both Q1 and Q2 HAM & RUS were fuelled for some 8-9 laps in order to do some 2 or 3 hot laps bearing in mind that they needed 2 laps to warm up the soft tyres ... then in Q3 the cars were fuelled up for only 4 laps which led to not enough load and a slighter raised car with negative consequences:
- a lower downforce level from the Venturi tunnels and
- light bottoming in high-speed corners something they didn`t get rid of yet ...
All these above-mentioned were in conjunction with the soft tyres that were not enough warmed up thus providing less grip, that`s why HAM was aborting the first hot lap even though he set the fastest S1 time up until then ...
This issue with the warm-up phase it`s just a double-edged sword for having troubles at the starts/restarts and advantages with tyre management but what`s interesting to know is whether is down to the race setup they choose or just down to the stiff suspension they need to set up the car for these new ground effect cars ...
It could be down to brake caliper shroud design as well. Notice how redbull evolves the design of their brake covers over the season so far. I dont think merc are doing much on that front. The shrouds play a big role into putting heat into the tyres especially with bigger rims than last year
I think it makes sense they haven't made any development there yet given they are busy dealing with bouncing. They'll probably make changes to the brake covers for tire warm-up once they get their suspension sorted out.
After the race, if were are looking at the laps and the lap times HAM was some 40 sec back to LEC which is some 0.5 sec/lap, but taking into account how much time he lost in the traffic ( some 20 sec.) before he run in clean air and another 2 sec. at his pit-stop and doing the maths we could easily say that now W13 is some 0.35 sec slower than F1-75?
I'm looking forward to seeing what they are doing on favourable tracks like Paul Ricard but most of all at Spa with this new TD regarding planks and skids' new rules ...
There is some new evidence had you are willing to check them out for the reason why both drivers had issues in Q3 ...
In both Q1 and Q2 HAM & RUS were fuelled for some 8-9 laps in order to do some 2 or 3 hot laps bearing in mind that they needed 2 laps to warm up the soft tyres ... then in Q3 the cars were fuelled up for only 4 laps which led to not enough load and a slighter raised car with negative consequences:
- a lower downforce level from the Venturi tunnels and
- light bottoming in high-speed corners something they didn`t get rid of yet ...
How many mm's do you think one of those cars will lift up if you take off 4 laps of fuel? I reckon you will be in region of 3-3.5kg of fuel difference there given the specific gravity of fuel is 0.750kg.
I understand your point but you should admit that due to the sprint race and thus lack of time they were running for the first time in Q3 with this low amount of fuel and PU race mode ...
There is some new evidence had you are willing to check them out for the reason why both drivers had issues in Q3 ...
In both Q1 and Q2 HAM & RUS were fuelled for some 8-9 laps in order to do some 2 or 3 hot laps bearing in mind that they needed 2 laps to warm up the soft tyres ... then in Q3 the cars were fuelled up for only 4 laps which led to not enough load and a slighter raised car with negative consequences:
- a lower downforce level from the Venturi tunnels and
- light bottoming in high-speed corners something they didn`t get rid of yet ...
All these above-mentioned were in conjunction with the soft tyres that were not enough warmed up thus providing less grip, that`s why HAM was aborting the first hot lap even though he set the fastest S1 time up until then ...
This issue with the warm-up phase it`s just a double-edged sword for having troubles at the starts/restarts and advantages with tyre management but what`s interesting to know is whether is down to the race setup they choose or just down to the stiff suspension they need to set up the car for these new ground effect cars ...
It could be down to brake caliper shroud design as well. Notice how redbull evolves the design of their brake covers over the season so far. I dont think merc are doing much on that front. The shrouds play a big role into putting heat into the tyres especially with bigger rims than last year
Looking back in time (at least for the last couple of years) it seems that`s more of a race strategy choice rather than the car`s DNA/design, don`t you think? Coz it`s not the first time they faced issues with the tyres warm-up ...
There is some new evidence had you are willing to check them out for the reason why both drivers had issues in Q3 ...
In both Q1 and Q2 HAM & RUS were fuelled for some 8-9 laps in order to do some 2 or 3 hot laps bearing in mind that they needed 2 laps to warm up the soft tyres ... then in Q3 the cars were fuelled up for only 4 laps which led to not enough load and a slighter raised car with negative consequences:
- a lower downforce level from the Venturi tunnels and
- light bottoming in high-speed corners something they didn`t get rid of yet ...
How many mm's do you think one of those cars will lift up if you take off 4 laps of fuel? I reckon you will be in region of 3-3.5kg of fuel difference there given the specific gravity of fuel is 0.750kg.
I understand your point but you should admit that due to the sprint race and thus lack of time they were running for the first time in Q3 with this low amount of fuel and PU race mode ...
I don’t think you will get that much/if any movement for that level of fuel used in Q3.
It would however, be interesting to compare a car on full fuel from the side and race ending/quali end fuel from the side
Now regarding the CFD and wind tunnel hours reshuffle after the first of June (or July?), there are rumours that now that`s clear for them they have no chance for both WDA & WCC, the bulk of the development time allocation will focus to analyse the main two solutions that emerged to be the winning one (RB18 and F1-75), something that M.Elliot was said they were doing on their YouTube channel in the Canada race debrief...
Furthermore, the rumours are saying that after the summer break there'll be just minimal car updates that were developed until June for both doesn`t worth investing in the actual car and also for budget cap reasons ...
One thing it`s crystal clear: they are not working further on W14 until they fully understand the car`s issues and after they`ll assess which of the 2 above concepts is working better for them ...
From my point of view, in this era of budget caps, the best thing to do or in other words had you wanna have the best bang for your buck is just wait and see at least half a championship to see what the competition is doing, then assess and take action, something like Force India/Racing Point was doing a couple of years ago ...
"Brixworth technicians analysed the data over the weekend and confirmed a more “conservative” choice on the engines, to avoid risks of breakage due to increased air rarefaction.
Mercedes struggled with – not so much drag resistance – at least in the case of Lewis Hamilton, but instead, a lower power deployed by the engine due to the altitude."
43s+ from the lead tells a lot IMHO. Clearly their concept isn't working for the top.
Maybe not the right topic here but Shovlin stated about Lewis that "once he was through the midfield cars he had good pace but by then the gap to Charles and Max was way too big to chase so we just focused on bringing the car home" and contrary they’re encouraged by the fact they’re moving in the right direction and have more to come in the next few races. They said now they are missing only two or three tenths to be able to race at the front.
43s+ from the lead tells a lot IMHO. Clearly their concept isn't working for the top.
Maybe not the right topic here but Shovlin stated about Lewis that "once he was through the midfield cars he had good pace but by then the gap to Charles and Max was way too big to chase so we just focused on bringing the car home" and contrary they’re encouraged by the fact they’re moving in the right direction and have more to come in the next few races. They said now they are missing only two or three tenths to be able to race at the front.
they also did mention that they have incremental upgrades for the next 2 races so who knows where they will be for the summer break. if the trajectory is still upwards we may have a close fight for hungary and for sure spa onwards
Now regarding the CFD and wind tunnel hours reshuffle after the first of June (or July?), there are rumours that now that`s clear for them they have no chance for both WDA & WCC, the bulk of the development time allocation will focus to analyse the main two solutions that emerged to be the winning one (RB18 and F1-75), something that M.Elliot was said they were doing on their YouTube channel in the Canada race debrief...
Furthermore, the rumours are saying that after the summer break there'll be just minimal car updates that were developed until June for both doesn`t worth investing in the actual car and also for budget cap reasons ...
One thing it`s crystal clear: they are not working further on W14 until they fully understand the car`s issues and after they`ll assess which of the 2 above concepts is working better for them ...
From my point of view, in this era of budget caps, the best thing to do or in other words had you wanna have the best bang for your buck is just wait and see at least half a championship to see what the competition is doing, then assess and take action, something like Force India/Racing Point was doing a couple of years ago ...
They are still off the pace a little compared to RB and Ferrari but are gaining good ground - I think perhaps to the point they are pushing those two more now and now that they seem to have a better idea of what works and what doesn't hopefully more performance comes. May be interesting to see how things are after the plank/flexifloor directives comes in too, Ferarri have already said they would need to make changes , RB seemed a little more coy,
I am not sure how much you can read into 'this is a RB/Merc/Ferarri teach this year too with the new GE cars is a pretty big departure from previous, But Merc seem to have gotten on top of the main issues, a lot seems to have come from a raised ride height, iirc, they have had bouncing in FP recently but not so much for qualti/racing (if at all) so thins are pretty good.
43s+ from the lead tells a lot IMHO. Clearly their concept isn't working for the top.
Maybe not the right topic here but Shovlin stated about Lewis that "once he was through the midfield cars he had good pace but by then the gap to Charles and Max was way too big to chase so we just focused on bringing the car home" and contrary they’re encouraged by the fact they’re moving in the right direction and have more to come in the next few races. They said now they are missing only two or three tenths to be able to race at the front.
That was my impression as well. IMO, we could have beaten Max on his bad day, but Leclerc and Sainz were too fast for us.
