TD039

[Tzk]

I can't say I agree. It's a wooden plank of standardised dimensions, what does it matter if it is a spec part?

If I read the regs correctly, then the plank length is given relative to the front and rear axle. As the wheelbase is not a fixed value, neither is the length of the plank.
Also the teams are allowed several freedoms when it comes to pocketing the plank or the mounting holes.

[f1jcw]

[...] the new skid blocks will be standard parts issued by F1. That is why they have to have enough to supply all the teams (I think?)

Nope, they all make their own, suddenly changing them to a spec part would be a way too big rule change and no team would go along with it
Check the tech regulations 3.5.9 k)-s) page 19 - it's mainly about the maximum total area and that of the individual pieces and if you compare different floors you'll see the skid blocks are all in different places.
RB has 7 blocks, some of which are split pieces around the measurement holes, Merc has 6 which fully surround the holes, Ferrari also has 6 but strategically placed in certain areas around the holes in the floor, same for Alfa with 5

https://i.imgur.com/fdWjNTz.png
Please ignore the shoddy scaling, per regulations (3.5.9 h. and 39.5 same doc) the holes are all in the same place on all planks.

It would probably take one day at most to produce new pieces with the same dimensions but rigid, if it's the plank assembly which needs changing then a few days so ultimately the extra time is so that teams which exploit the rules can make sure their car works fine without the tricks in question.

____

Btw i don't believe that a split plank is necessarily indicative of any given team using tricks, the rules allow it to be three pieces, Alfa being one of the teams that seems to fully utilize this.

Why allow it to be 3 pieces? Are they trying to save F1 teams money by using offcuts

[djones]

Is there any chance of these planks becoming a spec part in future? Would close any loopholes or material engineering to aid any sort of advantage

I don't understand why it isn't already. Until recently I actually thought it was a spec part, to be honest.

[KeiKo403]

What’s the likelihood that any teams which have this flexing floor currently will look to introduce changes to their floor at Hungry?

There is only France and Hungry left prior to the mid season break and surely teams don’t want to turn up at Spa with a legal floor but fall foul of the new AOM or whatever it’s called and end up having to jack up the ride height.

Would they be more inclined to:
1. Run in Hungry with their current advantage?
Or
2. Run a modified floor in Hungry to test and gather data to make whatever changes they can prior to getting to Spa?

[wesley123]

so ultimately the extra time is so that teams which exploit the rules can make sure their car works fine without the tricks in question.

Why not DSQ like they have done in the past. Why are cars that are engineered to illegally get around a rule allowed to drive. How is this any different from 2 fuel tanks.

Flexibility is a gray area, always has been. However, in comparison to the BAR double tank; in the case of the fuel tanks there was no grey area, there was no interpretation of the rules. It was blatant cheating so that BAR could run their cars under the weight limit.

[wjpbill]

I suspect most or all of you will all understand this already but I found this explanation helpful on flexi floors.

Apologies if you don't find it helpful.

I also wondered whether RB was slower on Sunday because they were limiting their flexing and therefore losing traction on corner exits but before anyone shouts, I know this is a thread about the W13 only, so I'll shut up.

https://motorsport.tv/f1-updates/video/ ... ban/156154

[Maax70]

Deleted

[OO7]

I suspect most or all of you will all understand this already but I found this explanation helpful on flexi floors.

Apologies if you don't find it helpful.

I also wondered whether RB was slower on Sunday because they were limiting their flexing and therefore losing traction on corner exits but before anyone shouts, I know this is a thread about the W13 only, so I'll shut up.

https://motorsport.tv/f1-updates/video/ ... ban/156154

In the video Jake Boxall-Legge stated that the ground effect description of an increase in performance when a wing is in close proximity to the ground "isn't the true definition when you consider an aircraft", but my understanding is that it certainly is true for aircraft, which often experience this phenomenon when attempting to land, causing the aircraft to float over the ground (increased lift performance), while within x percent of the wingspans distance to the ground.

[Hoffman900]

I suspect most or all of you will all understand this already but I found this explanation helpful on flexi floors.

Apologies if you don't find it helpful.

I also wondered whether RB was slower on Sunday because they were limiting their flexing and therefore losing traction on corner exits but before anyone shouts, I know this is a thread about the W13 only, so I'll shut up.

https://motorsport.tv/f1-updates/video/ ... ban/156154

In the video Jake Boxall-Legge stated that the ground effect description of an increase in performance when a wing is in close proximity to the ground "isn't the true definition when you consider an aircraft", but my understanding is that it certainly is true for aircraft, which often experience this phenomenon when attempting to land, causing the aircraft to float over the ground (increased lift performance), while within x percent of the wingspans distance to the ground.

This is a good thesis and gets on topic of front wing and flat bottom diffuser interactions with the road surface, as it applies to Formula 1:https://spiral.imperial.ac.uk/handle/10044/1/61129

This thesis presents an investigation of the flow physics governing aerodynamic inter-action mechanisms relevant to Formula One racing cars, in particular the influence of the front wing on the car chassis flat underbody and diffuser. The research has taken a fundamental approach, with emphasis on identifying the fundamental mechanisms governing the interaction. Wake diagnostic techniques have been used to identify the major flow features of the front wing wake that are likely to influence the flat underbody and diffuser. Models have then been designed to simulate these various flow features. A simple model was produced with an underbody which is flat apart from a diffuser over the rear 20% of its length. This was used to simulate the basic flow features of the flat underbody and diffuser of a Formula One car. Wind tunnel measurements of force and surface pressure have been made on this diffuser model with the various upstream models simulating aspects of the front wing wake. It has been found that the downforce generated by the diffuser model is highly sensitive to the configuration of the upstream front wing. Although, for the majority of front wing configurations the downforce generated by the diffuser model was reduced, it was discovered that for certain arrangements the downforce may actually be enhanced. By piecing together the various results gathered over the course of the research, the underlying flow physics involved in the interaction have been identified. Using this information, suggestions are made for how the configuration of the front wing may be optimised for minimum negative impact on the performance of the car underbody and diffuser.

The author went on to a long career at Ferrari and Brawn / Mercedes. Now he's involved in cycling and making the pitot tubes you see on some of the cars.https://aerosensor.tech/yaw-pitot/

[OO7]

Thanks for the link Hoffman.

[Tzk]

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/fia- ... /10338333/

Looks like the FIA won't back out of the acceleration measuring of the porpoising/bouncing and banning of the skid block trickery. Very nice.

Also there's a proposed rule change for 2023 on the table which raises the floor edge and diffuror throat by 25mm.

[.poz]

So, all BAR need to say was, it’ll take us a few races to come up with some new fuel tanks and fia would have said that’s fine. Correct me if I am wrong, they got a two race ban.
This is not a grey area this is deliberate manufacture to obfuscate the rules and gain and advantage, not are they allowed to keep the points that an advantage was gained in but they are being allowed to continue to use the offending part.
Since when did FIA and F1 fans become so blase about cheating.
Not once, but twice.
As being show in the Merc thread, it’s now if you can beat cheating teams, join them.
It is absolutely absurd.

Absurd is your interpretation of F1 rules

If a car pass current FIA test it's legal. Point. Look at MB and RB front wing: they flex a lot under load, everyone can see it but those wing are legal because can pass prescribe FIA test

Now FIA is changing (like in 2021 for rear wing) the tests in mid season and so some car that now are legal will became illegal... is that fair ? Why they are changing rules mid-season, for security reasons or just because Toto Wolf is crying about ?

With budget cap the damage is doubled, teams have to sped money just because FIA have changed the rules

hat off to Toto Wolf, he is very good in doing his work

bwoah

[f1jcw]

So, all BAR need to say was, it’ll take us a few races to come up with some new fuel tanks and fia would have said that’s fine. Correct me if I am wrong, they got a two race ban.
This is not a grey area this is deliberate manufacture to obfuscate the rules and gain and advantage, not are they allowed to keep the points that an advantage was gained in but they are being allowed to continue to use the offending part.
Since when did FIA and F1 fans become so blase about cheating.
Not once, but twice.
As being show in the Merc thread, it’s now if you can beat cheating teams, join them.
It is absolutely absurd.

Absurd is your interpretation of F1 rules

If a car pass current FIA test it' legal. Point. Look at MB and RB front wing: they flex a lot under load, everyone can see it but those wing are legal because can pass prescribe FIA test

Now FIA is changing (like in 2021 for rear wing) the tests in mid season and so some car that now are legal will became illegal... is that fair ? Why they are changing rules mid-season, for security reasons or just because Toto Wolf is crying about ?

With budget cap the damage is doubled, teams have to sped money just because FIA have changed the rules

hat off to Toto Wolf, he is very good in doing his work

bwoah

No, that is wrong. This plank flexing has always being in the rules, if some times have interrupted it differently doesn't stop it being illegal.
There is no grey area with this, it has being out and out rule breaking

[f1jcw]

so ultimately the extra time is so that teams which exploit the rules can make sure their car works fine without the tricks in question.

Why not DSQ like they have done in the past. Why are cars that are engineered to illegally get around a rule allowed to drive. How is this any different from 2 fuel tanks.

Flexibility is a gray area, always has been. However, in comparison to the BAR double tank; in the case of the fuel tanks there was no grey area, there was no interpretation of the rules. It was blatant cheating so that BAR could run their cars under the weight limit.

The plank flexing was in the rules for 2mm, not 6mm, I'd describe it just as blatant cheating as BAR

[KeiKo403]

So, all BAR need to say was, it’ll take us a few races to come up with some new fuel tanks and fia would have said that’s fine. Correct me if I am wrong, they got a two race ban.
This is not a grey area this is deliberate manufacture to obfuscate the rules and gain and advantage, not are they allowed to keep the points that an advantage was gained in but they are being allowed to continue to use the offending part.
Since when did FIA and F1 fans become so blase about cheating.
Not once, but twice.
As being show in the Merc thread, it’s now if you can beat cheating teams, join them.
It is absolutely absurd.

Absurd is your interpretation of F1 rules

If a car pass current FIA test it's legal. Point. Look at MB and RB front wing: they flex a lot under load, everyone can see it but those wing are legal because can pass prescribe FIA test

Now FIA is changing (like in 2021 for rear wing) the tests in mid season and so some car that now are legal will became illegal... is that fair ? Why they are changing rules mid-season, for security reasons or just because Toto Wolf is crying about ?

With budget cap the damage is doubled, teams have to sped money just because FIA have changed the rules

hat off to Toto Wolf, he is very good in doing his work

bwoah

For all we know, behind closed doors in FIA meetings other team principals might be shouting just as loudly as Wolff.

Just remember that he hasn’t even publicly named RedBull and Ferrari for having an illegal car.
And yet when teams arrived in Bahrain pre season it was in fact Horner proclaiming that Mercedes had an illegal car and then denying he’d even said such things.