2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

[Ben1980]

Its ridiculous people keep banging on about Ricciardo as if firing him is going to make a difference. They are also overstating the importance of a few million in prize money in this new costcap era and given McLaren are rolling in the sponsors now anyway. Something about not seeing the forest for the trees. At least Ricciardo has an idea of what a car is like that can regularly challenge for wins the team needs that reference point even in this new reg phase. You can't understate that importance. Even Key mentioned in the previous podcasts how much the took on board from both guys input to try and engineer some of these quirks out of this years car. Obviously they still have work to do on that front as it seems they played it too safe this year. Some of you guys need to wake up and see that the car is the main issue and no amount of complaining about Ricciardo not beating Lando or giving them one higher position in the WCC is going to magically solve the issues the team have yet again with a slow car. Ricciardo's salary in 2022 is alot less than Lando's nowhere near $20 million per year. Besides that Ricciardo brings alot to the table in other areas that other drivers don't such as his experience its not all just down to track performance as to his worth to the team.

McLaren have yet to live up to the promise of giving Ricciardo a competitive,well handling car so it works both ways. He has a proven record of winning races when the car is good enough. Until the car is anywhere near the front runners which it currently isn't even close all this talk of swapping drivers around is akin to putting a bandaid on a bleeding femoral artery. Its going to make little difference in the grand scheme of winning championships when the car is nowhere near the front. Maybe getting someone else as the CTO of Aero is a good start..

I dont think anyone doubts the car is an issue, its not good enough to challenge for wins or podiums this year. But, based on Landos performance it is better then Ricciardo is making it look, especially in qualifying.

His underperformed isn't a massive issue, his huge salary and underperformance becomes an issue.

[mwillems]

https://thef1clan.com/2020/06/03/the-di ... er-sports/
That is the latest constructors prize money i can find and it seems IMHO anyway that no hefty extra prize money exists ( IMHO when looking at the grand scheme of things and current budget and sponsorship deals)

The difference in 2019 between 4th and 5th was only 3 million pounds
4th and 6th only 6 million pounds
But you gain wind tunnel time and CFD time for next year which means a better 2023 car
My personal opinion is that the 3-6 or so million pound sacrifice is worth it just to gain that extra performance edge in 2023!

Prize money will be different this year since this will be the highest revenue earning season for F1 in history and prize money is a percentage of FOM’s season revenue… But, it is your opinion in regards to that sacrifice, I don’t share it since there is no guarantee that the additional WT and CFD will net you a big improvement, while most probably you will have negative effects from it as I explained in a previous post… I would do things different if I had a say.

Since it isn’t realistic to come in 2023 with a car that is WCC material (if they make a big jump next year, it will potentially be in 2024), I would go for a cheaper driver and save 20+ million a year… There is no point in having a Championship winning capable driver if you won’t have a car capable of fighting for that… In addition, from a longevity stand point, I would focus on Norris and make sure that whichever car is developed suits him, since ultimately he is the foreseeable future of the Team… I would invest the 40+ million that I would save during the next 2 seasons in keep upgrading the Infrastructure and resources in the Team.

On the mean time, I would keep focusing on the car as you very well put it, since Sponsors don’t pay big money for a team that finishes in at the back of the grid, they pay money for Teams making noise in the sport, since that’s what puts the car on TV week in - week out… And they get positive exposure when decent results come in (like what the team experienced in 2019 and 2020)… From a driver perspective, I would look for someone young that can do the job of bringing the car home hopefully close to Lando (and who knows, surprising everyone and maybe even in front of Lando)… There are several drivers with good marketing potential, whether because of their nationality (like Herta) or their age (like Piastri) or making a lot of noise in a huge sponsorship driven and target market like Pato, for a fraction of the cost of Daniel.

But I don’t make those calls… So my opinion (like all of us) really doesn’t matter in the end… As a fan, all I can do is cheer for the team and hope they make the right calls, whichever those are.

1. You replied to me saying there was hefty prize money at stake. Previously it was 3 million pounds, hardly hefty IMHO. Now you speculating this year will be more ie hefty again? how much more? 5 million pounds?
Hardly hefty in the grand scheme of things so I politely completely disagree with your hefty statement no matter how you spin it.

2. You also claim extra CFD and wind tunnel time is not worth a 3 million pounds or more possibly sacrifice. Again i completely disagree due to how far off the pace Norris was from Max in France. 1.5 - 2 seconds off the pace is dire critical! Half a second off the pace is dire. 2 seconds there should be flashing warning sirens at the Mclaren factory. It is beyond dire. I cannot understand how any Mclaren fan would not think it is absolutely dire critical to gain every extra wind tunnel and CFD time to turn this car around. 2 seconds off the pace is a joke for a team like Mclaren. And this is Lando;s lap time compared to Max who is definately more on top of this driving style than Ric is.
https://en.mclarenf-1.com/2022/gp/s9028 ... s/821-842/

3. " In addition, from a longevity stand point, I would focus on Norris and make sure that whichever car is developed suits him, since ultimately he is the foreseeable future of the Team… " <----- I said last year to the countless posters who said they should 100% fully focus next years car on Lando's driving style and not Ric's would be a disaster. I argued Ric has driven the redbull and knows how a fast F1 car should behave so it is competetive on most tracks. Lando does not have this experience as he never driven anything bar this unique Mclaren.

i said very clearly if they focus on Lando's preference over Rics then next years car will be a turtle. Everybody argued and many disagreed but its evident who was right and who was wrong now.
Lando was a MASSIVE 1.5-2 seconds off the race pace in France. This year is the proof.
This is the result of focusing on landos style for this year. The proof is here right in front of you.
The proof is below clear as day. Reality as they call it!
https://en.mclarenf-1.com/2022/gp/s9028 ... s/821-842/

Yet quite a few and you yourself somehow keep wishing for the same thing next year when already we saw the result this year and how wrong this approach is???
No worries wish for the same thing next year you are entitled to wish for whatever you want. As Eisntein said insanity is doing the exact same thing but expecting a different result!

Prize money will be much smaller than the difference in sponsor bonus. Its easily conceivable that 3rd over 4th might give an extra 10m in bonus. Now that 13m cumulative figure is not to be sniffed at.

[Ben1980]

"Yet quite a few and you yourself somehow keep wishing for the same thing next year when already we saw the result this year and how wrong this approach is???
No worries wish for the same thing next year you are entitled to wish for whatever you want. As Eisntein said insanity is doing the exact same thing but expecting a different result!"

Who is wishing for the same thing next year?

I dont mind people have arguments and different opinions. But the above just seems to be made up and/or a way of creating their own argument.

[Mclarensenna]

Prize money will be different this year since this will be the highest revenue earning season for F1 in history and prize money is a percentage of FOM’s season revenue… But, it is your opinion in regards to that sacrifice, I don’t share it since there is no guarantee that the additional WT and CFD will net you a big improvement, while most probably you will have negative effects from it as I explained in a previous post… I would do things different if I had a say.

Since it isn’t realistic to come in 2023 with a car that is WCC material (if they make a big jump next year, it will potentially be in 2024), I would go for a cheaper driver and save 20+ million a year… There is no point in having a Championship winning capable driver if you won’t have a car capable of fighting for that… In addition, from a longevity stand point, I would focus on Norris and make sure that whichever car is developed suits him, since ultimately he is the foreseeable future of the Team… I would invest the 40+ million that I would save during the next 2 seasons in keep upgrading the Infrastructure and resources in the Team.

On the mean time, I would keep focusing on the car as you very well put it, since Sponsors don’t pay big money for a team that finishes in at the back of the grid, they pay money for Teams making noise in the sport, since that’s what puts the car on TV week in - week out… And they get positive exposure when decent results come in (like what the team experienced in 2019 and 2020)… From a driver perspective, I would look for someone young that can do the job of bringing the car home hopefully close to Lando (and who knows, surprising everyone and maybe even in front of Lando)… There are several drivers with good marketing potential, whether because of their nationality (like Herta) or their age (like Piastri) or making a lot of noise in a huge sponsorship driven and target market like Pato, for a fraction of the cost of Daniel.

But I don’t make those calls… So my opinion (like all of us) really doesn’t matter in the end… As a fan, all I can do is cheer for the team and hope they make the right calls, whichever those are.

1. You replied to me saying there was hefty prize money at stake. Previously it was 3 million pounds, hardly hefty IMHO. Now you speculating this year will be more ie hefty again? how much more? 5 million pounds?
Hardly hefty in the grand scheme of things so I politely completely disagree with your hefty statement no matter how you spin it.

2. You also claim extra CFD and wind tunnel time is not worth a 3 million pounds or more possibly sacrifice. Again i completely disagree due to how far off the pace Norris was from Max in France. 1.5 - 2 seconds off the pace is dire critical! Half a second off the pace is dire. 2 seconds there should be flashing warning sirens at the Mclaren factory. It is beyond dire. I cannot understand how any Mclaren fan would not think it is absolutely dire critical to gain every extra wind tunnel and CFD time to turn this car around. 2 seconds off the pace is a joke for a team like Mclaren. And this is Lando;s lap time compared to Max who is definately more on top of this driving style than Ric is.
https://en.mclarenf-1.com/2022/gp/s9028 ... s/821-842/

3. " In addition, from a longevity stand point, I would focus on Norris and make sure that whichever car is developed suits him, since ultimately he is the foreseeable future of the Team… " <----- I said last year to the countless posters who said they should 100% fully focus next years car on Lando's driving style and not Ric's would be a disaster. I argued Ric has driven the redbull and knows how a fast F1 car should behave so it is competetive on most tracks. Lando does not have this experience as he never driven anything bar this unique Mclaren.

i said very clearly if they focus on Lando's preference over Rics then next years car will be a turtle. Everybody argued and many disagreed but its evident who was right and who was wrong now.
Lando was a MASSIVE 1.5-2 seconds off the race pace in France. This year is the proof.
This is the result of focusing on landos style for this year. The proof is here right in front of you.
The proof is below clear as day. Reality as they call it!
https://en.mclarenf-1.com/2022/gp/s9028 ... s/821-842/

Yet quite a few and you yourself somehow keep wishing for the same thing next year when already we saw the result this year and how wrong this approach is???
No worries wish for the same thing next year you are entitled to wish for whatever you want. As Eisntein said insanity is doing the exact same thing but expecting a different result!

Prize money will be much smaller than the difference in sponsor bonus. Its easily conceivable that 3rd over 4th might give an extra 10m in bonus. Now that 13m cumulative figure is not to be sniffed at.

Mclaren though unfortunately has no shot at 3rd this year. 4th is the maximum i would realistically say. Redbull, Ferrari and Merc seem just too strong. i dont see Mclaren overhauling the works Mercedes team this year.

[MrGapes]

Atleast double points France, bit surprised at slightly lack of pace after the upgrades, maybe will take a bit of optimizing. Lando needs to improve his opening laps, he usually quite conservative into turn 1 and loses all that hes gained in qualifying, Daniel usually the opposite which is good. If France does stay on the calendar I hope they do something about the pit time loss cause everyone just did one stoppers after a safety car which sucks cause everyone is just conserving their tyres as did Lando and Daniel to match target lap. Hopefully a higher downforce config will be better for the team at Hungary.

[_cerber1]

Can we expect more from the Hungaroring? Many low-speed turns, chicanes, not demanding on engine power.
To be honest, I'm already confused about what McLaren fits and what doesn't...

[Stig14]

Hopefully a higher downforce config will be better for the team at Hungary.

I think so. Remember the car was very competitive at Monaco earlier in the year and the upgrades they brought to France seem to have improved the low speed performance (according to Lando after quali). The weather forecast looks to be a bit mixed at this stage though so that could turn the weekend into a lottery like last year!

[djos]

Getting Rid of Ricciardo isn't going to make the car faster or slower.

Getting rid will save a hell of a lot of money. But, unless sonething miraculous happens in the second half of the season, his career has taken such a bashing, he knows that he won't get the same salary. So will have no desire to leave and I doubt tge team will pay him 20m to sit around.

So he is in for another season in all reality, unless he doesn't fancy risking another kicking.

Driver salaries are not included in the budget cap and are not taking away funds from the race team!

[Swed3121]

Getting Rid of Ricciardo isn't going to make the car faster or slower.

Getting rid will save a hell of a lot of money. But, unless sonething miraculous happens in the second half of the season, his career has taken such a bashing, he knows that he won't get the same salary. So will have no desire to leave and I doubt tge team will pay him 20m to sit around.

So he is in for another season in all reality, unless he doesn't fancy risking another kicking.

Driver salaries are not included in the budget cap and are not taking away funds from the race team!

Yes, they very clearly do!

They may not be included in the budget cap, but neither is the CAPEX for building a new wind tunnel or the lease on the MTC.

Every cent they waste on Daniel, could be spent on improving facilities even further.

McLaren have a finite amount of money from sponsors, winnings and investments.
Once they subtract the amount allowed by the budget cap from that, they can use the rest on system upgrades, new technology but also drivers and investments

[Mclarensenna]

Getting Rid of Ricciardo isn't going to make the car faster or slower.

Getting rid will save a hell of a lot of money. But, unless sonething miraculous happens in the second half of the season, his career has taken such a bashing, he knows that he won't get the same salary. So will have no desire to leave and I doubt tge team will pay him 20m to sit around.

So he is in for another season in all reality, unless he doesn't fancy risking another kicking.

Driver salaries are not included in the budget cap and are not taking away funds from the race team!

Yes, they very clearly do!

They may not be included in the budget cap, but neither is the CAPEX for building a new wind tunnel or the lease on the MTC.

Every cent they waste on Daniel, could be spent on improving facilities even further.

McLaren have a finite amount of money from sponsors, winnings and investments.
Once they subtract the amount allowed by the budget cap from that, they can use the rest on system upgrades, new technology but also drivers and investments

https://www.planetf1.com/news/andreas-s ... udget-cap/

Sorry but you are incorrect, every cent they are spending on Ricciardos salary is not being taken away from "system upgrades" and "new technologies" when Mclaren are not just over budget but considerably according to the article pasted above.

[Stig14]

Driver salaries are not included in the budget cap and are not taking away funds from the race team!

Yes, they very clearly do!

They may not be included in the budget cap, but neither is the CAPEX for building a new wind tunnel or the lease on the MTC.

Every cent they waste on Daniel, could be spent on improving facilities even further.

McLaren have a finite amount of money from sponsors, winnings and investments.
Once they subtract the amount allowed by the budget cap from that, they can use the rest on system upgrades, new technology but also drivers and investments

https://www.planetf1.com/news/andreas-s ... udget-cap/

Sorry but you are incorrect, every cent they are spending on Ricciardos salary is not being taken away from "system upgrades" and "new technologies" when Mclaren are not just over budget but considerably according to the article pasted above.

The fact they were at risk of running over the budget cap (before it was raised) doesn't mean they have unlimited funds to do everything they want to do. This is a team which was in serious trouble just 2 years ago and had to undergo some major changes to simply survive during covid (and even before that).

We simply don't have a load of money stuffed down the back of the sofa for infrastructure improvements. If we weren't paying upwards of £12m per year for Daniel, that would be, say, £7m to pay for a less expensive driver and £5m per year to spend on infrastructure improvements. I'm not advocating sacking Daniel (I don't think that would achieve much in the grand scheme of things and with the potential available replacements currently) but freeing up funds is a valid arguement in my opinion.

[Mclarensenna]

Yes, they very clearly do!

They may not be included in the budget cap, but neither is the CAPEX for building a new wind tunnel or the lease on the MTC.

Every cent they waste on Daniel, could be spent on improving facilities even further.

McLaren have a finite amount of money from sponsors, winnings and investments.
Once they subtract the amount allowed by the budget cap from that, they can use the rest on system upgrades, new technology but also drivers and investments

https://www.planetf1.com/news/andreas-s ... udget-cap/

Sorry but you are incorrect, every cent they are spending on Ricciardos salary is not being taken away from "system upgrades" and "new technologies" when Mclaren are not just over budget but considerably according to the article pasted above.

The fact they were at risk of running over the budget cap (before it was raised) doesn't mean they have unlimited funds to do everything they want to do. This is a team which was in serious trouble just 2 years ago and had to undergo some major changes to simply survive during covid (and even before that).

We simply don't have a load of money stuffed down the back of the sofa for infrastructure improvements. If we weren't paying upwards of £12m per year for Daniel, that would be, say, £7m to pay for a less expensive driver and £5m per year to spend on infrastructure improvements. I'm not advocating sacking Daniel (I don't think that would achieve much in the grand scheme of things and with the potential available replacements currently) but freeing up funds is a valid arguement in my opinion.

https://insideracing.com/index.php/form ... le-to-meet

"The fact they were at risk of running over the budget cap (before it was raised) doesn't mean they have unlimited funds to do everything they want to do." <--- Mclaren going over the budget cap literally means they had the funds to do whatever was meant to be done. Mclaren is even calling for a budget cap increase as well so they can spend even more money. That is literally the exact opposite of what you are insinuating.

[Stig14]

https://www.planetf1.com/news/andreas-s ... udget-cap/

Sorry but you are incorrect, every cent they are spending on Ricciardos salary is not being taken away from "system upgrades" and "new technologies" when Mclaren are not just over budget but considerably according to the article pasted above.

The fact they were at risk of running over the budget cap (before it was raised) doesn't mean they have unlimited funds to do everything they want to do. This is a team which was in serious trouble just 2 years ago and had to undergo some major changes to simply survive during covid (and even before that).

We simply don't have a load of money stuffed down the back of the sofa for infrastructure improvements. If we weren't paying upwards of £12m per year for Daniel, that would be, say, £7m to pay for a less expensive driver and £5m per year to spend on infrastructure improvements. I'm not advocating sacking Daniel (I don't think that would achieve much in the grand scheme of things and with the potential available replacements currently) but freeing up funds is a valid arguement in my opinion.

https://insideracing.com/index.php/form ... le-to-meet

"The fact they were at risk of running over the budget cap (before it was raised) doesn't mean they have unlimited funds to do everything they want to do." <--- Mclaren going over the budget cap literally means they had the funds to do whatever was meant to be done. Mclaren is even calling for a budget cap increase as well so they can spend even more money. That is literally the exact opposite of what you are insinuating.

If you have £20 in your pocket (McLarens budget) and the price of something was £15 (budget cap), you'd feel ok with getting to the till and realising it's actually £18 (budget cap overspend). It doesn't mean you have £100 in the bank to spend on whatever you like, as you're "insinuating". You in fact only have £2 to spend. I've obviously simplified the scenario here rather than using millions to avoid confusion.

[Mclarensenna]

The fact they were at risk of running over the budget cap (before it was raised) doesn't mean they have unlimited funds to do everything they want to do. This is a team which was in serious trouble just 2 years ago and had to undergo some major changes to simply survive during covid (and even before that).

We simply don't have a load of money stuffed down the back of the sofa for infrastructure improvements. If we weren't paying upwards of £12m per year for Daniel, that would be, say, £7m to pay for a less expensive driver and £5m per year to spend on infrastructure improvements. I'm not advocating sacking Daniel (I don't think that would achieve much in the grand scheme of things and with the potential available replacements currently) but freeing up funds is a valid arguement in my opinion.

https://insideracing.com/index.php/form ... le-to-meet

"The fact they were at risk of running over the budget cap (before it was raised) doesn't mean they have unlimited funds to do everything they want to do." <--- Mclaren going over the budget cap literally means they had the funds to do whatever was meant to be done. Mclaren is even calling for a budget cap increase as well so they can spend even more money. That is literally the exact opposite of what you are insinuating.

If you have £20 in your pocket (McLarens budget) and the price of something was £15 (budget cap), you'd feel ok with getting to the till and realising it's actually £18 (budget cap overspend). It doesn't mean you have £100 in the bank to spend on whatever you like, as you're "insinuating". You in fact only have £2 to spend. I've obviously simplified the scenario here rather than using millions to avoid confusion.

£15 budget cap £18 overspend £100 in the bank and £2 to spend... Seriously what sort of made Maths is this?

[Stig14]

£15 budget cap £18 overspend £100 in the bank and £2 to spend... Seriously what sort of made Maths is this?

Well you don't seem to respond reasonably to words so I thought I'd put it into some numbers you might understand. It clearly didn't work so I suggest we move on.