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That was not the point. As far as I can remember, it had less potential for further development than the concept that ultimately brought FER to the race track.101FlyingDutchman wrote: ↑29 Jul 2022, 19:46FER evaluated it but it’s extremely tricky to do. Lots of unsupported real estate/tricky flow structures.
To say Mercedes is a joke is neither right nor fair. They are 3rd - and thats not really what you can call a joke. Especially if you do that with a car whichs concept is just totally wrong. The sidepods cause too much drag because the front tyre wake is not managed properly and hits the rear of the car, making the flowfield even more unpredictable, the lack of the high-pressure zone thats an essential part of Ferraris aero-concept results in a lack of outwash which hurts floor performance, what they try to compensate with winglets and a huge wing that probably results in even more drag etc., the cooling-concept and the huge "shoulders" has a negative impact on rear- and beamwing-performance and "driving" the floor with more air over the diffusor instead of driving it with the rear and beamwing is also inferior to their main competitors. But Mercedes surely knows what they have to do for 2023. Toto Wolff recently admitted that their concept went down like a lead ballon and he was one of a few left who believed in this concept. But since all the others teams who put their money on similar concepts- Zeropod is basically an evolution of Micropods only - and improved massively(according to F1TV - McLaren 0,28 secs, AM 0.52 and Williams 0.18)its more than obvious where their problem lies and that this concept was a shot in the foot. And everyone can make a mistake with a concept when huge rule changes are introduced. Its not the first time in F1 and it won't be the last time. And still its not bad to still be 3rd in the championship with a concept as wrong as Mercedes'. And that makes Mercedes a team to reckon with, not a joke. Even if they won't fight for victories in 2022.De Jokke wrote: ↑29 Jul 2022, 18:21Funny to see how many still finding this 'ok'.
Mercedes is a joke this year, I hate to say it, but I have no problem to admit it (which most people here are).
They try not much compared to other teams (AM even build a b-spec in budget cap times, Williams (also not very sound) improved much more relative to merc).
Merc in 2022:
*hmm, let's try this minor tweak to the floor: ow yes 3 thousands gain.
*Let's try a new rear wing (which other teams already had way way before): yes another tenth found.
Keep mocking my posts but I know that W14 will be a dud too if they keep going like this.
Considering it's a technical thread, pointing out technical flaws is alright, but to say it's "ugly and crap" just for the sake of it is inappropriateDe Jokke wrote: ↑29 Jul 2022, 19:51It's messing up the whole car, creating problems in several areas.
That's why they can't get a hold of it. Each time they solve something, something else pops up. (they said so themselves) It's the neverending story.
Funny: all the negativily rated posters are the ones who dare to say what's going on with this car
cplchanb wrote: ↑29 Jul 2022, 21:31Considering it's a technical thread, pointing out technical flaws in a constructive manner is alright, but to say it's "ugly and crap" just for the sake of it is inappropriateDe Jokke wrote: ↑29 Jul 2022, 19:51It's messing up the whole car, creating problems in several areas.
That's why they can't get a hold of it. Each time they solve something, something else pops up. (they said so themselves) It's the neverending story.
Funny: all the negativily rated posters are the ones who dare to say what's going on with this car
At least, Prox's statement has some basis in some media outlets. Spare us the sarcasm and snipe comments if you have nothing technical to add.
Horner has been very vocal about how unfair it is to change the rules, their protests are why the td was pushed back to Spa rather than PR.chrstphrln wrote: ↑30 Jul 2022, 01:37They have been vocal about the rules for 2023, not for the changes from Spa on.
I am sorry, but calling it "trickery" - sounds very negative. Tickery is part of F1 and to think that there is even one team not trying - an illusion. "Trickery" is not illegal in any way. And people who are suggesting that trickery is something bad and that only "bad teams" are doing that, are indeed enviers and sore loosers only. It is the job of any F1 engineer to exploit loopholes in the regulations and no F1 Championship was ever won by a team not using "trickery". So - i would advise you not to use that term as it makes you look like being one of those guys. So even if Ferrari and Red Bull are doing this(no one knows what any team does and it was even widely said that Ferraris new floor complies with the "Spa-Regulations"- so its obviously exaggerated in relation to their massive advantage in pace and was only insteumental in terms of influencing regulation changes in ones own favor).
No one is flat out calling them cheaters, trickery is a part of F1.Andi76 wrote: ↑30 Jul 2022, 01:56I am sorry, but calling it "trickery" - sounds very negative. Tickery is part of F1 and to think that there is even one team not trying, is an illusion. "Trickery" is not illegal in any way. And people who suggest that trickery is something bad and only "bad teams" are doing that, are indeed enviers and sore loosers only, as it is the job of any F1 engineer to exploit loopholes in the regulations and no F1 Championship was ever won by a team not using "trickery". So - i would advise you not to use that term as it makes you look like being one of those guys.Also i think all the other (Mercedes)Teams when walking away from similar concepts improving massively, has proven that it has nothing to do with engine power. The concept was changed, not the engine.
Yes any improvement can make you jump a couple of spots. But as F1 TV has shown - two of them improved most in 2022 and one massively. And they improved massively after a concept change. It is clear that it was the concept change what made them jump a couple of spots. So - you can turn it however you want - and this is the important thing that is counting- it was clearly proven that their old concept was worse. And since this was the case not only once, but three times now - i think its finally time to stop defending (what even Toto finally did one week ago)a concept that was a shoot in the foot. And also history has proven - if all teams walk away from one concept and only one teams is staying with it, this team is wrong. And all the others are right.holeindalip wrote: ↑30 Jul 2022, 02:09No one is flat out calling them cheaters, trickery is a part of F1.Andi76 wrote: ↑30 Jul 2022, 01:56I am sorry, but calling it "trickery" - sounds very negative. Tickery is part of F1 and to think that there is even one team not trying, is an illusion. "Trickery" is not illegal in any way. And people who suggest that trickery is something bad and only "bad teams" are doing that, are indeed enviers and sore loosers only, as it is the job of any F1 engineer to exploit loopholes in the regulations and no F1 Championship was ever won by a team not using "trickery". So - i would advise you not to use that term as it makes you look like being one of those guys.Also i think all the other (Mercedes)Teams when walking away from similar concepts improving massively, has proven that it has nothing to do with engine power. The concept was changed, not the engine.
And the other merc powered teams aren’t exactly lighting the timesheets up. The midfield is pretty tight so any improvement can make you jump a couple of spots…
, or something else for inconsistency?