2022 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, July 29 - 31

[dialtone]

My hunch is Russell has gone with full wet setup that heats up the wet tyres and that paid dividend on softer range. He might just cook up his tyres tomorrow. It would be nice to see him win a race but i doubt it.

I would think it’s the opposite. To heat up tires in cold weather you need some sliding so lower DF. In the rain you want more DF because you have lifted the car up a bit and need to compensate with more wing.

His setup is probably low DF and activates the front tires without overheating them, while friday with similar setup they were overheating them instead causing instability in entry to t4.

[chrisc90]

Anyone have any race pace data given its a pretty shook up grid?

[dialtone]

Anyone have any race pace data given its a pretty shook up grid?

I posted that yesterday but not representative any more due to temperature.

[Juzh]

Do we have any information on what exactly Max's problem was? Is it out of the question that he has a PU issue? Maybe not starting even in P10?

Sometimes he's just slow. It happens.

I think you were slow thinking when you typed this.

[Andi76]

My hunch is Russell has gone with full wet setup that heats up the wet tyres and that paid dividend on softer range. He might just cook up his tyres tomorrow. It would be nice to see him win a race but i doubt it.

I would think it’s the opposite. To heat up tires in cold weather you need some sliding so lower DF. In the rain you want more DF because you have lifted the car up a bit and need to compensate with more wing.

His setup is probably low DF and activates the front tires without overheating them, while friday with similar setup they were overheating them instead causing instability in entry to t4.

I think low downforce in Hungary is not the way to get on Pole. But a full wet-set up when no rain is most likely - i also cannot imagine that this was the reason. I think it the reason was just a combination of track conditions(track was almost green because of the rain and Russell did his lap very late when track conditions probably were slightly better), a phenomenal lap by Russell and "not so good" laps by Sainz and Leclerk. A McLaren so close to a Ferrari also suggests that, i think.

[chrisc90]

Anyone have any race pace data given its a pretty shook up grid?

I posted that yesterday but not representative any more due to temperature.

Thanks. Will go back and have a look.

Do you think any particular team will have any advantage on deg and pace over another, or is it going to be a bit of a blind one given the changes to the conditions?

[dialtone]

My hunch is Russell has gone with full wet setup that heats up the wet tyres and that paid dividend on softer range. He might just cook up his tyres tomorrow. It would be nice to see him win a race but i doubt it.

I would think it’s the opposite. To heat up tires in cold weather you need some sliding so lower DF. In the rain you want more DF because you have lifted the car up a bit and need to compensate with more wing.

His setup is probably low DF and activates the front tires without overheating them, while friday with similar setup they were overheating them instead causing instability in entry to t4.

I think low downforce in Hungary is not the way to get on Pole. But a full wet-set up when no rain is most likely - i also cannot imagine that this was the reason.

I obviously meant low downforce relatively. How else would you explain being 20kph slower in t4 otherwise, with clear difficulty keeping the car on track? Relatively low DF, which also shows up in the best speed traces in the main straight seems to me the most likely.

[dialtone]

Anyone have any race pace data given its a pretty shook up grid?

I posted that yesterday but not representative any more due to temperature.

Thanks. Will go back and have a look.

Do you think any particular team will have any advantage on deg and pace over another, or is it going to be a bit of a blind one given the changes to the conditions?

IMHO pretty blind. Front tires life will determine who wins tomorrow, yeah it’s hard to pass here but a bad exit from t11 or main straight and you could indeed get passed. Plus obviously undercut can work here with high deg.

[LM10]

Anyone have any race pace data given its a pretty shook up grid?

I posted that yesterday but not representative any more due to temperature.

Thanks. Will go back and have a look.

Do you think any particular team will have any advantage on deg and pace over another, or is it going to be a bit of a blind one given the changes to the conditions?

Someone mentioned the possibility of Mercedes having set the car up for wet conditions which made them warm up the tires pretty easily compared to others. This might have very well been the case and if so they’re going to have a hard time not overheating the tires tomorrow.

As for Ferrari and RedBull, it’s a guesstimate, but Charles and Carlos seem to be confident about the race. So let’s see.

[ringo]

My hunch is Russell has gone with full wet setup that heats up the wet tyres and that paid dividend on softer range. He might just cook up his tyres tomorrow. It would be nice to see him win a race but i doubt it.

I would think it’s the opposite. To heat up tires in cold weather you need some sliding so lower DF. In the rain you want more DF because you have lifted the car up a bit and need to compensate with more wing.

His setup is probably low DF and activates the front tires without overheating them, while friday with similar setup they were overheating them instead causing instability in entry to t4.

Not exactly, you have it the other way around. Overheating the tyres is a bit different than having them in the right temperature. More downforce is probably what he has on the car. More load works the carcass of the tyre better.
Yes sliding overheats them but that's more to do with the surface and degradation.
So the truth is somewhere inbetween, but more load is better. And I think Russel has always gambled on more load on the car during wet weekends.

From you analysis, I guess we also see how big a role traction plays in attaining top speed. Good tyre temps, better traction, earlier up to speed.

[dialtone]

My hunch is Russell has gone with full wet setup that heats up the wet tyres and that paid dividend on softer range. He might just cook up his tyres tomorrow. It would be nice to see him win a race but i doubt it.

I would think it’s the opposite. To heat up tires in cold weather you need some sliding so lower DF. In the rain you want more DF because you have lifted the car up a bit and need to compensate with more wing.

His setup is probably low DF and activates the front tires without overheating them, while friday with similar setup they were overheating them instead causing instability in entry to t4.

Not exactly, you have it the other way around. Overheating the tyres is a bit different than having them in the right temperature. More downforce is probably what he has on the car. More load works the carcass of the tyre better.
Yes sliding overheats them but that's more to do with the surface and degradation.
So the truth is somewhere inbetween, but more load is better. And I think Russel has always gambled on more load on the car during wet weekends.

From you analysis, I guess we also see how big a role traction plays in attaining top speed. Good tyre temps, better traction, earlier up to speed.

I'm not sure I follow. More downforce will cause less sliding, yeah it will work the tire better but it will heat up more slowly and gently. We've seen this in plenty of races this year where Ferrari was slower to heat tires up and had more downforce, like Jeddah, Australia, Imola (needed 2 laps to put in the fast quali lap), Miami where Ferrari was sliding and cooked the fronts overheating them too fast to name a few. Since then to fix the issue of fronts overheating Ferrari has used more front downforce.

You haven't quite explained why my reasoning is wrong.

EDIT: another factor for tomorrow is fuel consumption. Cars with better hybrid will likely do much better.

[nico5]

My hunch is Russell has gone with full wet setup that heats up the wet tyres and that paid dividend on softer range. He might just cook up his tyres tomorrow. It would be nice to see him win a race but i doubt it.

I would think it’s the opposite. To heat up tires in cold weather you need some sliding so lower DF. In the rain you want more DF because you have lifted the car up a bit and need to compensate with more wing.

His setup is probably low DF and activates the front tires without overheating them, while friday with similar setup they were overheating them instead causing instability in entry to t4.

Not exactly, you have it the other way around. Overheating the tyres is a bit different than having them in the right temperature. More downforce is probably what he has on the car. More load works the carcass of the tyre better.
Yes sliding overheats them but that's more to do with the surface and degradation.
So the truth is somewhere inbetween, but more load is better. And I think Russel has always gambled on more load on the car during wet weekends.

From you analysis, I guess we also see how big a role traction plays in attaining top speed. Good tyre temps, better traction, earlier up to speed.

Plus, have you ever seen sliding on a warm up lap? More df "naturally" works the front tires better at low speed with a higher load, but it's also mechanical not just aero. Tomorrow if it's dry it's still gonna be cold so that should play into Merc's hand.
Weird quali though with a 30 degree drop in track temps from yesterday, wouldn't take too much away for overall performance evaluations, but massive job from George and the team to bounce back from France.

[dialtone]

I would think it’s the opposite. To heat up tires in cold weather you need some sliding so lower DF. In the rain you want more DF because you have lifted the car up a bit and need to compensate with more wing.

His setup is probably low DF and activates the front tires without overheating them, while friday with similar setup they were overheating them instead causing instability in entry to t4.

Not exactly, you have it the other way around. Overheating the tyres is a bit different than having them in the right temperature. More downforce is probably what he has on the car. More load works the carcass of the tyre better.
Yes sliding overheats them but that's more to do with the surface and degradation.
So the truth is somewhere inbetween, but more load is better. And I think Russel has always gambled on more load on the car during wet weekends.

From you analysis, I guess we also see how big a role traction plays in attaining top speed. Good tyre temps, better traction, earlier up to speed.

Plus, have you ever seen sliding on a warm up lap? More df "naturally" works the front tires better at low speed with a higher load, but it's also mechanical not just aero. Tomorrow if it's dry it's still gonna be cold so that should play into Merc's hand.
Weird quali though with a 30 degree drop in track temps from yesterday, wouldn't take too much away for overall performance evaluations, but massive job from George and the team to bounce back from France.

Sliding on a warmup lap? wat?

Anyway Williams had some of the best S1, and the best top speed by a margin (10kph on Ferrari), and you're telling me it's because they are using a high downforce setup?

[zibby43]

I see a lot of references to “wet setup.”

I have been consistent in saying this the past few years.

There’s really no such thing in this era. They have things they can change with the wing settings, tire pressures, and that’s about the full scope of what will change for a “wet setup.” Virtue no wiggle room for ride height changes these days, either.

[Stu]

Ride height change is automatic with wets and inters, as far as I can recall. They normally have a bigger circumference than the slicks.