2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[dialtone]

With the slow tyre warm-up phase, Lewis should be glad to keep 7th.

They don't have this issue today, that's why they got on pole.

[Shrieker]

With the slow tyre warm-up phase, Lewis should be glad to keep 7th.

Hamilton has had some stellar starts in some of the recent GPs tho.

[Sidiamal]

With the slow tyre warm-up phase, Lewis should be glad to keep 7th.

He's made up places at the start at most races this season, this narrative is tiresome.

[Spoutnik]

I think Hamilton will end up higher than Russell tomorrow (great start + usual very good race pace)

Its a great pole but its a false hope to me. There's no indication that Russell can keep up with the pace of McL/Ferrari or even Alpine. It will be like Alonso P2 in Canada

[wogx]

I'm hoping that #GR63 won't try to win this race in T1.

[Andi76]

maybe we can quit pretending Merc is so far off the pace.

Because of one unusual qualifying? Seriously?

[Andi76]

what baffles me more than the w13 is how Haas is bring new upgrades to the body and merc cant. Where did the money go, into the high salaries?

Anyhow the issues as zealot says is the floor. The wheels and sidepods are easy to undersrand. The car's performance wouldnt be so unpredictable if it were those things.
The issue is something very detail and very dynamic and that's floor and suspension.
Possibly front wing as well.

Drag about the wheels and engine cover is the easiest thing to simulate compared to the floor and the wings.

This is NOT what caught Mercedes off gaurd.

It's the floor and the movement of it while the car is suspended. Time and time again we hear that this is not easy to simulate and not easy to test.

The floor and the movement of it may be a problem(Mercedes definetely has more than one problem and its a combination of things that makes them slower than Ferrari and Red Bull). But i hardly doubt that it is their main problem(and that its harder to simulate and test the movement of the floor than the whole rear aerodynamics. Lotus already put a lot of effort in this more than 40 years ago, so...)and their main problem in relation to drag. The floor is not responsible for a lot of the cars drag, while the front wheel wake contributes massively to that. It also can make a mess with the aero of a car. As it is well known that one of the main reasons for "big"-sidepods was exactly the management of the front-wheel wake, i think that being one of the main problems(it definetely is more than just one area Mercedes has problems compared to Ferrari/Red Bull) is far more likely. Also the other teams improving after using "big"-sidepods , points more into that direction.

Totally disagree when you say the floor is not responsible for drag. If you pitch the floor in a way that does not agree with the way the upper body was made to work then you will surely get more drag.

The most apparent cause of drag on the Mercedes were the big wings and the canard thingy and the vortex drag it produces but the rear wings were fixed. The canard thing has to do with helping the floor work by downwashing near the eadge of the floor. If the floor is pitched suboptimally then it would change the angle if attack of this canard and also the vortices it makes will likely go somewhere suboptimal too. It is easy for Mercedes to change the angle of attack of it and the size of it but they haven't. They aren't stupid so we have to trust their plan.

The floors contribution to the drag of a F1 car is about 10%. And thats a fact. So sorry if i keep hardly doubting your argumenation and even say its almost impossible that the floor is responsible for the drag problem. The canards and the big wing on the other hand - i totally agree that this is a part of the problem. But as they are a part sidepod concept - here we come full circle. And they probably did not change the AoA because things get even worse. There can be no other reason. At least i do not see any other reason.

[De Jokke]

With the slow tyre warm-up phase, Lewis should be glad to keep 7th.

He's made up places at the start at most races this season, this narrative is tiresome.

Euhm, I think he lost more places than he gained at starts (due to the tyre warm-up issues), that's why Wolff always had to talk post-race about Lewis recovering the lost places at the start and the job well done.

[Sidiamal]

With the slow tyre warm-up phase, Lewis should be glad to keep 7th.

He's made up places at the start at most races this season, this narrative is tiresome.

Euhm, I think he lost more places than he gained at starts (due to the tyre warm-up issues), that's why Wolff always had to talk post-race about Lewis recovering the lost places at the start and the job well done.

No, recovering places because of the mismatch of quali and race pace, so he usually qualified below where he should be. The only time he's lost places at the start has been Imola, and Silverstone's 2nd restart where he was blocked by Perez.

People were making hay about this "warm-up" just last weekend and then Lewis mugged Perez off the starting line and then him behind him for the entirety of the race.

[ringo]

The floor and the movement of it may be a problem(Mercedes definetely has more than one problem and its a combination of things that makes them slower than Ferrari and Red Bull). But i hardly doubt that it is their main problem(and that its harder to simulate and test the movement of the floor than the whole rear aerodynamics. Lotus already put a lot of effort in this more than 40 years ago, so...)and their main problem in relation to drag. The floor is not responsible for a lot of the cars drag, while the front wheel wake contributes massively to that. It also can make a mess with the aero of a car. As it is well known that one of the main reasons for "big"-sidepods was exactly the management of the front-wheel wake, i think that being one of the main problems(it definetely is more than just one area Mercedes has problems compared to Ferrari/Red Bull) is far more likely. Also the other teams improving after using "big"-sidepods , points more into that direction.

Totally disagree when you say the floor is not responsible for drag. If you pitch the floor in a way that does not agree with the way the upper body was made to work then you will surely get more drag.

The most apparent cause of drag on the Mercedes were the big wings and the canard thingy and the vortex drag it produces but the rear wings were fixed. The canard thing has to do with helping the floor work by downwashing near the eadge of the floor. If the floor is pitched suboptimally then it would change the angle if attack of this canard and also the vortices it makes will likely go somewhere suboptimal too. It is easy for Mercedes to change the angle of attack of it and the size of it but they haven't. They aren't stupid so we have to trust their plan.

The floors contribution to the drag of a F1 car is about 10%. And thats a fact. So sorry if i keep hardly doubting your argumenation and even say its almost impossible that the floor is responsible for the drag problem. The canards and the big wing on the other hand - i totally agree that this is a part of the problem. But as they are a part sidepod concept - here we come full circle. And they probably did not change the AoA because things get even worse. There can be no other reason. At least i do not see any other reason.

I think what you are not connecting, is that donforce not made by the floor has to be made by the wings.
And how much do they contribute to drag?

[PlatinumZealot]

The floor and the movement of it may be a problem(Mercedes definetely has more than one problem and its a combination of things that makes them slower than Ferrari and Red Bull). But i hardly doubt that it is their main problem(and that its harder to simulate and test the movement of the floor than the whole rear aerodynamics. Lotus already put a lot of effort in this more than 40 years ago, so...)and their main problem in relation to drag. The floor is not responsible for a lot of the cars drag, while the front wheel wake contributes massively to that. It also can make a mess with the aero of a car. As it is well known that one of the main reasons for "big"-sidepods was exactly the management of the front-wheel wake, i think that being one of the main problems(it definetely is more than just one area Mercedes has problems compared to Ferrari/Red Bull) is far more likely. Also the other teams improving after using "big"-sidepods , points more into that direction.

Totally disagree when you say the floor is not responsible for drag. If you pitch the floor in a way that does not agree with the way the upper body was made to work then you will surely get more drag.

The most apparent cause of drag on the Mercedes were the big wings and the canard thingy and the vortex drag it produces but the rear wings were fixed. The canard thing has to do with helping the floor work by downwashing near the eadge of the floor. If the floor is pitched suboptimally then it would change the angle if attack of this canard and also the vortices it makes will likely go somewhere suboptimal too. It is easy for Mercedes to change the angle of attack of it and the size of it but they haven't. They aren't stupid so we have to trust their plan.

The floors contribution to the drag of a F1 car is about 10%. And thats a fact. So sorry if i keep hardly doubting your argumenation and even say its almost impossible that the floor is responsible for the drag problem. The canards and the big wing on the other hand - i totally agree that this is a part of the problem. But as they are a part sidepod concept - here we come full circle. And they probably did not change the AoA because things get even worse. There can be no other reason. At least i do not see any other reason.

That 10% figure was under the old system.
If your floor doesn't work well you will need more wing or you will need to pitch the car forward more.

Anyway. What do you say of the Hungary pole position?

[Andi76]

Totally disagree when you say the floor is not responsible for drag. If you pitch the floor in a way that does not agree with the way the upper body was made to work then you will surely get more drag.

The most apparent cause of drag on the Mercedes were the big wings and the canard thingy and the vortex drag it produces but the rear wings were fixed. The canard thing has to do with helping the floor work by downwashing near the eadge of the floor. If the floor is pitched suboptimally then it would change the angle if attack of this canard and also the vortices it makes will likely go somewhere suboptimal too. It is easy for Mercedes to change the angle of attack of it and the size of it but they haven't. They aren't stupid so we have to trust their plan.

The floors contribution to the drag of a F1 car is about 10%. And thats a fact. So sorry if i keep hardly doubting your argumenation and even say its almost impossible that the floor is responsible for the drag problem. The canards and the big wing on the other hand - i totally agree that this is a part of the problem. But as they are a part sidepod concept - here we come full circle. And they probably did not change the AoA because things get even worse. There can be no other reason. At least i do not see any other reason.

That 10% figure was under the old system.
If your floor doesn't work well you will need more wing or you will need to pitch the car forward more.

Anyway. What do you say of the Hungary pole position?

The same that i say about Latifis P1 in Free Practice. I do not not think this qualifying was representing the real pecking order. Mercedes is still far away from Ferrari and Red Bull. But especially that makes it an exceptional performance by Russell and the team.

[Hammerfist]

The floors contribution to the drag of a F1 car is about 10%. And thats a fact. So sorry if i keep hardly doubting your argumenation and even say its almost impossible that the floor is responsible for the drag problem. The canards and the big wing on the other hand - i totally agree that this is a part of the problem. But as they are a part sidepod concept - here we come full circle. And they probably did not change the AoA because things get even worse. There can be no other reason. At least i do not see any other reason.

That 10% figure was under the old system.
If your floor doesn't work well you will need more wing or you will need to pitch the car forward more.

Anyway. What do you say of the Hungary pole position?

The same that i say about Latifis P1 in Free Practice. I do not not think this qualifying was representing the real pecking order. Mercedes is still far away from Ferrari and Red Bull. But especially that makes it an exceptional performance by Russell and the team.

No they are not. Its obvious they are closing in. No they havent caught yet but the gap is closing. Mainly the straight line speed deficit needs to be addressed then they will be a force everywhere.

[chrisc90]

No they are not. Its obvious they are closing in. No they havent caught yet but the gap is closing. Mainly the straight line speed deficit needs to be addressed then they will be a force everywhere.

Based on what?

They are still a good .3-.500 away from RB or Ferrari

[Spoutnik]

Let's not get carried away.. Congrats to Georges but he's not shown more race pace than Jarno Trulli recently... I don't think he'll be able to keep the two red cars behind, and even Lando. I think Hamilton is the best asset for Merc tomorrow even if it was not a good day for him.