2022 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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tpe
tpe
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Location: Greece

Re: 2022 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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dialtone wrote:
31 Jul 2022, 18:32


I can't explain why Ferrari chose to go with the Hard tire on Leclerc, I think their proper mistake was not switching to the softs in the 2nd stint and freeing them up with tire choice later on with LEC. They also weren't helped by Sainz being slow, the car probably wasn't as good, like it struggled yesterday in quali, it struggled today in the race. I still don't why they went with the hards though, I think the strategy team in Ferrari has trouble understanding and updating the tire performance over the race.
Great analysis as always.
When AWS is able to predict when a driver will be ready to attack another one, it's inexcusable for a "top" team not to be able to understand how their tires work during the race.

At the end of the day, data analysts just love to have the amount of data an F1 team has. If they don't know how to use them, it's clearly a big issue.

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Big Tea
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Joined: 24 Dec 2017, 20:57

Re: 2022 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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codetower wrote:
31 Jul 2022, 18:31
dialtone wrote:
31 Jul 2022, 18:18
Shal_Leg16 wrote:
31 Jul 2022, 18:15


you are being either too naive or acting as one.

binotto can go and s*ck his strategists noodle ffs.

at one stage leclerc had clearled off Russell and had a 6sec advantage on him and 10sec on Max . all that with 5 lap tyre advantage. had they not called him for hards and let him drive for 10 laps more and then bring in for softs he would still be at worst 2nd and would have had a run at max with fresher tyres.

and you are telling me the whether was clold ....what else a tornedo ? a cyclone ? utter nonsense. its obvious binotto wont accept it publically that he and his strategic team are clowns.
I agree with what you are saying, but what do you expect Binotto to say in an interview? "Yeah I'm just walking down to sack the strategy team" that's going to create the right morale in the team. They know the team made strategic errors in the season but won't discuss that in an interview.
I’m as big a fan of Binotto as anyone, but what I expect from him is to own up to your mistakes. As a lifelong Ferrari fan, and probably older than most on this forum, I’d rather see a team that recognizes mistakes and shortcomings, than one who is clueless, or continues making the same mistakes.
I often wonder how much freedom to 'manage' Binotto actually has and how much 'advice' he gets for others who are just trying to help ( [-o< ) but have influence in the company.
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

dialtone
dialtone
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Joined: 25 Feb 2019, 01:31

Re: 2022 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Big Tea wrote:
31 Jul 2022, 18:39
codetower wrote:
31 Jul 2022, 18:31
dialtone wrote:
31 Jul 2022, 18:18


I agree with what you are saying, but what do you expect Binotto to say in an interview? "Yeah I'm just walking down to sack the strategy team" that's going to create the right morale in the team. They know the team made strategic errors in the season but won't discuss that in an interview.
I’m as big a fan of Binotto as anyone, but what I expect from him is to own up to your mistakes. As a lifelong Ferrari fan, and probably older than most on this forum, I’d rather see a team that recognizes mistakes and shortcomings, than one who is clueless, or continues making the same mistakes.
I often wonder how much freedom to 'manage' Binotto actually has and how much 'advice' he gets for others who are just trying to help ( [-o< ) but have influence in the company.
Do you have sources that say he's not free?
Last edited by dialtone on 31 Jul 2022, 18:45, edited 1 time in total.

Andi76
Andi76
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Joined: 03 Feb 2021, 20:19

Re: 2022 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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ringo wrote:
31 Jul 2022, 18:10
pipoloko wrote:
31 Jul 2022, 18:06
for Those that says that Binotto is wrong
I would say >>> write to Elkan and offer your services!!!!!
the problems is not Binotto
the car is not enough quick in cold weather !!!! that is a design problem !!!!
do you understand the influence of temperature in racing cars?
do you understand that HAM got the best lap on the same (older red) tires as LEC
please stop blaming the team if you are technical guys!!!
the only critic in my opinion is that RB and MB look have done better improvements after half a season while Ferrari now is behind
True. the hard tyre decsion made things look worse than they are.
From qualifying it was obvious redbull were the faster car here. But that hard tyre plan was salt in the wounds.
Ferrari should noticed the Alpines. They believed too much in their downforce on their car being able to work the tyre.
The hard tyre choice indeed made things look worse than they really are. Ferrari had the fastest car for several races now. They also clearly had the fastest car on Friday, and they dominated the longruns. As most of the experts( like Marc Surer, Ralf Schumacher, Norbert Haug, Peter Windsor etc.) i would say Ferrari has clearly the fastest car, and also had it in Hungary. Also in terms of developement - RB definetely has not done better improvements. If we remember the beginning of the season - Ferrari was the fastest car, then Red Bull brought two major updates. They were faster than Ferrari. But in Barcelona Ferrari brought their update and they have the fastest car since Barcelona. So - RB and Mercedes did not bring better improvements. F1.TV and Formula1.com just did an analysis about that and Mercedes gained 0.15 secs on Ferrari since the first race...thats not really a lot, especially since it much easier to make such a horrible car, like the W14 has been at the beginning of the season, faster.

I also do not think its any design issue or relying too much on downforce. Like every team says - the 2022 Pirellis are extremely sensitive and every team has issues. One more, one less and track dependant. Also the teams still do not completely understand the new cars. So - its very easy to make mistakes in terms of set-up when conditions are "extraordinary". The fluctuations in performance of some teams clearly shows this(Mercedes, McLaren are the best examples).

It was just madness to use all medium tyres and only leave one set for pitstops and take the risk to use a tyre never used before that weekend, with no data available. Especially since it is well known since Imola that the F1-75 does not make good use of the tyres when temperatures are low. And that says everything about Ferraris strategy departement and on track management. It would have happened with a Ross Brawn there that a tyre that was not used would have been used in the race. Race Strategy is more intuition than planed. Ferrari has to reorganise all this and one person has to be responsible, like Ross was in the past.

evered7
evered7
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Joined: 22 Apr 2012, 20:46

Re: 2022 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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All the pit wall clownery shouldn't excuse the fact that Sainz was slow AF again. Guy is Massa 2.0 but refuses to believe it yet.

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Big Tea
99
Joined: 24 Dec 2017, 20:57

Re: 2022 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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dialtone wrote:
31 Jul 2022, 18:43
Big Tea wrote:
31 Jul 2022, 18:39
codetower wrote:
31 Jul 2022, 18:31


I’m as big a fan of Binotto as anyone, but what I expect from him is to own up to your mistakes. As a lifelong Ferrari fan, and probably older than most on this forum, I’d rather see a team that recognizes mistakes and shortcomings, than one who is clueless, or continues making the same mistakes.
I often wonder how much freedom to 'manage' Binotto actually has and how much 'advice' he gets for others who are just trying to help ( [-o< ) but have influence in the company.
Do you have sources that say he's not free?
No that's why I said it this way. If I did I would post it. I love a scandal :mrgreen:
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

Sevach
Sevach
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Joined: 07 Jun 2012, 17:00

Re: 2022 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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evered7 wrote:
31 Jul 2022, 18:50
All the pit wall clownery shouldn't excuse the fact that Sainz was slow AF again. Guy is Massa 2.0 but refuses to believe it yet.
And the team is squeamish about moving him out of the way.


space wadet
space wadet
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Joined: 31 May 2022, 14:30

Re: 2022 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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dialtone wrote:
31 Jul 2022, 18:32
I think the strategy team in Ferrari has trouble understanding and updating the tire performance over the race.

Binotto: “They knew that the hard ones would need at least 2/3 of warm up. The analyzes said that the mediums would have been faster for a maximum of 10 laps and then the hard ones would have to give advantage at the end of the race, while the hard ones stopped working "
Binotto said the same thing after Silverstone, that the Hards would get up to temp and would be faster after a few laps. There does seem to be a problem at Ferrari in understanding tires.

dialtone
dialtone
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Joined: 25 Feb 2019, 01:31

Re: 2022 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Big Tea wrote:
31 Jul 2022, 18:50
dialtone wrote:
31 Jul 2022, 18:43
Big Tea wrote:
31 Jul 2022, 18:39


I often wonder how much freedom to 'manage' Binotto actually has and how much 'advice' he gets for others who are just trying to help ( [-o< ) but have influence in the company.
Do you have sources that say he's not free?
No that's why I said it this way. If I did I would post it. I love a scandal :mrgreen:
Bah... Binotto has said since the start of the year that the team needed stability to perform, his behavior has been completely in line with that. He's in charge and makes decisions, he's influenced as much as the other TPs are. Firing people because they underperform a bit would be like firing the Mercedes team because they built a bad car. Now the strategy team is a different beast perhaps, mostly because they haven't showed improvement in tire understanding.

evered7
evered7
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Joined: 22 Apr 2012, 20:46

Re: 2022 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Sevach wrote:
31 Jul 2022, 18:52
evered7 wrote:
31 Jul 2022, 18:50
All the pit wall clownery shouldn't excuse the fact that Sainz was slow AF again. Guy is Massa 2.0 but refuses to believe it yet.
And the team is squeamish about moving him out of the way.

https://twitter.com/FanaticsFerrari/sta ... k-UvXWVJhA
These fellows can't see that Leclerc was comfortably keeping him at a distance while Sainz was losing out to Russell. If Leclerc was in P2 at the start, he would have passed Russell for sure.

Sainz makes managing the race difficult for the entire team. He's at the wrong place at the wrong time every time.

Why can't they say to them that if the other guy closes the gap to you and is in DRS given the rest of the things are the same, you move the F out and focus on your race.

Racing each other is fine when it is 2014 Mercedes levels of domination. This is 2010 and we are RB but we've got the most incompetent set of folks running the strategy every race weekend.

Xyz22
Xyz22
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Joined: 16 Feb 2022, 20:05

Re: 2022 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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evered7 wrote:
31 Jul 2022, 18:50
All the pit wall clownery shouldn't excuse the fact that Sainz was slow AF again. Guy is Massa 2.0 but refuses to believe it yet.
I told you multiple times. This year there is a clear difference between Sainz and Leclerc in race trim and has been like that every single race.

tpe
tpe
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Joined: 03 Feb 2006, 00:24
Location: Greece

Re: 2022 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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In Silverstone they preferred to pit Sainz to avoid to ask him t move over.
Same here. It was very clear that he could not pass RUS, but still they chose not to ask him to move over. What a mess.
Last edited by tpe on 31 Jul 2022, 19:20, edited 1 time in total.

tpe
tpe
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Joined: 03 Feb 2006, 00:24
Location: Greece

Re: 2022 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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I have to ask:
Is it worth it to start a new thread just for us to understand what are the necessary tools an F1 strategy team needs to have in order to make the right calls?
And no, I am not talking about organization, but just the applications and data they need.

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Jambier
5
Joined: 07 Mar 2018, 11:02
Location: France

Re: 2022 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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What a joke this season… worst season ever

They will finish 3rd behind Mercedes’, how can it be?
Stealing us a glorious fight like in 2021

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NicoS
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Joined: 11 Feb 2022, 17:21

Re: 2022 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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tpe wrote:
31 Jul 2022, 19:04
I have to ask:
Is it worth it to start a new thread just for us to understand what are the necessary tools an F1 strategy team needs to have in order to make the right calls?
And no, I am not talking about organization, but just the applications and data they need.
No need to discuss, Ferrari have all the necessary tools, they just need to be more confident in themselves and their drivers, be more flexible and "adventurous" in adapting strategies.
They tend to go racing with plans "A to D" and confine themselves to plans "A to D", then tripping over themselves deciding what plan to use from plan "A to D" and not racing to the on track situation.