2022 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, July 29 - 31

[chrisc90]

Is there any information regarding Botta's retirement? From what I heard on the TV streams it seemed a PU issue. Does anyone have any clarification?

[dialtone]

Anyone know why Ferrari were slow on the softs too. I didn't expect Sainz to be overtaken by Hamilton running the same tyre who was 9/10s behind on lap 54ish

Same reason as why they were slow in quali. Couldn't switch them on well. But to be clear, LEC was the fastest car on track in the last stint.

https://i.imgur.com/g6A91xd.jpeg

Lat 54 to 70, average lap times for the drivers here:
LEC: 1.22.320
HAM: 1.22.560
VER: 1.23.324
SAI: 1.23.647

Aside from the stint on hards, LEC was consistently the fastest average pace in the race.

EDIT: updated graph with average laps rather than 90%ile laps, average laps in the race remain unchanged of course.

I'm sorry but this summation is just plain wrong unless you're reading into data what you want to see. And people shouldn't just blindly accept all these data interpretations as facts.

Anyone with the F1 app can simply 'replay live timing' which I've just done. Lewis was the fastest car in the last stint. Right until when he caught Sainz first and then Russell which off course slowed him down. After that, ten seconds behind Max with about 4 laps left it was surely just bring the car home. Noteworthy that Leclerc had newer soft tyres as well but wasn't faster. Leclerc also had no one to fight until finishing 0.3 behind Perez on the final lap. Being in the position he was, fighting for every point he would have had every reason to be pushing to catch Perez, which was achievable.

To use the average speed over all of the last stint laps to say Leclerc was quickest is, well, assuming there's no wrong intent, plain wrong.

Also an aside, no data showed conclusively that Mercedes ran a low df setup. It;s almost ridiculous to say that

Look man... I don't really care about this pissing contest. Ham was fast in the last stint and fast in the 2nd stint, I wrote as much in the race summary. I like Ham, your attacks towards me are rubbish.

The simple point is that LEC was plenty fast to win the race and while SAI was slower on Mediums and Softs, LEC was at least on par with the car that had the best pace on softs, so people claiming that Ferrari was slow on softs don't have a leg to stand. LEC and HAM pace on the last stint was entirely comparable.

As for tire age, if you are so good to replay live timing, which you really cared about making it one of your main points, you should know that LEC stopped 3 laps after HAM and came out with tires 1 lap older than HAM, so he had a total of 2 laps younger tires. But obviously you know that, because you're so good at replaying live timing, right?

Have a nice day.

[justmoi]

Same reason as why they were slow in quali. Couldn't switch them on well. But to be clear, LEC was the fastest car on track in the last stint.

https://i.imgur.com/g6A91xd.jpeg

Lat 54 to 70, average lap times for the drivers here:
LEC: 1.22.320
HAM: 1.22.560
VER: 1.23.324
SAI: 1.23.647

Aside from the stint on hards, LEC was consistently the fastest average pace in the race.

EDIT: updated graph with average laps rather than 90%ile laps, average laps in the race remain unchanged of course.

I'm sorry but this summation is just plain wrong unless you're reading into data what you want to see. And people shouldn't just blindly accept all these data interpretations as facts.

Anyone with the F1 app can simply 'replay live timing' which I've just done. Lewis was the fastest car in the last stint. Right until when he caught Sainz first and then Russell which off course slowed him down. After that, ten seconds behind Max with about 4 laps left it was surely just bring the car home. Noteworthy that Leclerc had newer soft tyres as well but wasn't faster. Leclerc also had no one to fight until finishing 0.3 behind Perez on the final lap. Being in the position he was, fighting for every point he would have had every reason to be pushing to catch Perez, which was achievable.

To use the average speed over all of the last stint laps to say Leclerc was quickest is, well, assuming there's no wrong intent, plain wrong.

Also an aside, no data showed conclusively that Mercedes ran a low df setup. It;s almost ridiculous to say that

Look man... I don't really care about this pissing contest. Ham was fast in the last stint and fast in the 2nd stint, I wrote as much in the race summary. I like Ham, your attacks towards me are rubbish.

The simple point is that LEC was plenty fast to win the race and while SAI was slower on Mediums and Softs, LEC was at least on par with the car that had the best pace on softs, so people claiming that Ferrari was slow on softs don't have a leg to stand. LEC and HAM pace on the last stint was entirely comparable.

As for tire age, if you are so good to replay live timing, which you really cared about making it one of your main points, you should know that LEC stopped 3 laps after HAM and came out with tires 1 lap older than HAM, so he had a total of 2 laps younger tires. But obviously you know that, because you're so good at replaying live timing, right?

Have a nice day.

Attack?? STOP being dramatic. I'm simply pointing out that your statement is incorrect. And it is. Surely you knew that? I'm not even interested or trying to say who was fastest in the race blah blah blah. In fact I would agree that before he put on the hard tyres Charles was probably fastest in the race. I was merely correcting something you summised which was wrong. And it's not the first.

And why the saltiness about live timing and also the general tone of your response. Calm down. We all get it wrong sometimes

[justmoi]

Same reason as why they were slow in quali. Couldn't switch them on well. But to be clear, LEC was the fastest car on track in the last stint.

https://i.imgur.com/g6A91xd.jpeg

Lat 54 to 70, average lap times for the drivers here:
LEC: 1.22.320
HAM: 1.22.560
VER: 1.23.324
SAI: 1.23.647

Aside from the stint on hards, LEC was consistently the fastest average pace in the race.

EDIT: updated graph with average laps rather than 90%ile laps, average laps in the race remain unchanged of course.

I'm sorry but this summation is just plain wrong unless you're reading into data what you want to see. And people shouldn't just blindly accept all these data interpretations as facts.

Anyone with the F1 app can simply 'replay live timing' which I've just done. Lewis was the fastest car in the last stint. Right until when he caught Sainz first and then Russell which off course slowed him down. After that, ten seconds behind Max with about 4 laps left it was surely just bring the car home. Noteworthy that Leclerc had newer soft tyres as well but wasn't faster. Leclerc also had no one to fight until finishing 0.3 behind Perez on the final lap. Being in the position he was, fighting for every point he would have had every reason to be pushing to catch Perez, which was achievable.

To use the average speed over all of the last stint laps to say Leclerc was quickest is, well, assuming there's no wrong intent, plain wrong.

Also an aside, no data showed conclusively that Mercedes ran a low df setup. It;s almost ridiculous to say that

Look man... I don't really care about this pissing contest. Ham was fast in the last stint and fast in the 2nd stint, I wrote as much in the race summary. I like Ham, your attacks towards me are rubbish.

The simple point is that LEC was plenty fast to win the race and while SAI was slower on Mediums and Softs, LEC was at least on par with the car that had the best pace on softs, so people claiming that Ferrari was slow on softs don't have a leg to stand. LEC and HAM pace on the last stint was entirely comparable.

As for tire age, if you are so good to replay live timing, which you really cared about making it one of your main points, you should know that LEC stopped 3 laps after HAM and came out with tires 1 lap older than HAM, so he had a total of 2 laps younger tires. But obviously you know that, because you're so good at replaying live timing, right?

Have a nice day.

Attack?? STOP being dramatic. I'm simply pointing out that your statement is incorrect. And it is. Surely you knew that? I'm not even interested or trying to say who was fastest in the race blah blah blah. In fact I would agree that before he put on the hard tyres Charles was probably fastest in the race. I was merely correcting something you summised which was wrong. And it's not the first.

And why the saltiness about live timing and also the general tone of your response. Calm down. We all get it wrong sometimes

[justmoi]

What's with all these double posts?

[chrisc90]

What's with all these double posts?

Ive had it a few times where its said theres been a new reply to the topic whilst youve been posting. That reply is your own. It must be a forum thing/bug somewhere. Its been so slow to post lately too.

[dialtone]

I'm sorry but this summation is just plain wrong unless you're reading into data what you want to see. And people shouldn't just blindly accept all these data interpretations as facts.

Anyone with the F1 app can simply 'replay live timing' which I've just done. Lewis was the fastest car in the last stint. Right until when he caught Sainz first and then Russell which off course slowed him down. After that, ten seconds behind Max with about 4 laps left it was surely just bring the car home. Noteworthy that Leclerc had newer soft tyres as well but wasn't faster. Leclerc also had no one to fight until finishing 0.3 behind Perez on the final lap. Being in the position he was, fighting for every point he would have had every reason to be pushing to catch Perez, which was achievable.

To use the average speed over all of the last stint laps to say Leclerc was quickest is, well, assuming there's no wrong intent, plain wrong.

Also an aside, no data showed conclusively that Mercedes ran a low df setup. It;s almost ridiculous to say that

Look man... I don't really care about this pissing contest. Ham was fast in the last stint and fast in the 2nd stint, I wrote as much in the race summary. I like Ham, your attacks towards me are rubbish.

The simple point is that LEC was plenty fast to win the race and while SAI was slower on Mediums and Softs, LEC was at least on par with the car that had the best pace on softs, so people claiming that Ferrari was slow on softs don't have a leg to stand. LEC and HAM pace on the last stint was entirely comparable.

As for tire age, if you are so good to replay live timing, which you really cared about making it one of your main points, you should know that LEC stopped 3 laps after HAM and came out with tires 1 lap older than HAM, so he had a total of 2 laps younger tires. But obviously you know that, because you're so good at replaying live timing, right?

Have a nice day.

Attack?? STOP being dramatic. I'm simply pointing out that your statement is incorrect. And it is. Surely you knew that? I'm not even interested or trying to say who was fastest in the race blah blah blah. In fact I would agree that before he put on the hard tyres Charles was probably fastest in the race. I was merely correcting something you summised which was wrong. And it's not the first.

And why the saltiness about live timing and also the general tone of your response. Calm down. We all get it wrong sometimes

When you come out and say "everyone is good at doing live timing" you are insulting me and my work which, last time I checked, is provided for free. There was no reason to say any of that.

[ismail1991]

So if we take out all the laps were the car was slow, and say the laps where he had DRS were also slow, then it’s fast?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Eliminate the outliers from the data first. Say remove the or four slowest laps from Lec and Ham.

Ok, so tried removing the first 2, LEC warming up his tires + outlap, so starting from 56 and removed 62 and 64 where Ham made his passes:

https://i.imgur.com/5IizZbW.jpeg

Still slower.

LEC: 1.22.375
HAM: 1.22.529
VER: 1.23.422
SAI: 1.23.733

Still convinced LEC wasn't fastest?

Lap 61 and 63 should have been deleted as well because Hamilton was almost under 1 second of the car ahead and losing speed through corners. In addition, Leclerc would have set the fastest lap time if he was faster at the last soft stint

[justmoi]

When you come out and say "everyone is good at doing live timing" you are insulting me and my work which, last time I checked, is provided for free. There was no reason to say any of that.

What??? Relax friend..

[dialtone]

Eliminate the outliers from the data first. Say remove the or four slowest laps from Lec and Ham.

Ok, so tried removing the first 2, LEC warming up his tires + outlap, so starting from 56 and removed 62 and 64 where Ham made his passes:

https://i.imgur.com/5IizZbW.jpeg

Still slower.

LEC: 1.22.375
HAM: 1.22.529
VER: 1.23.422
SAI: 1.23.733

Still convinced LEC wasn't fastest?

Lap 61 and 63 should have been deleted as well because Hamilton was almost under 1 second of the car ahead and losing speed through corners. In addition, Leclerc would have set the fastest lap time if he was faster at the last soft stint

Lap 63 is one of the fastest laps of his stint, 3rd or 4th fastest lap, without that lap he's definitely not faster than Leclerc whatever groups of laps you choose. Lap 63 happened to be a fairly slow lap for Leclerc at 1.22.5 when both his previous and following laps were 1.22.0 or 1.21.9.

Lap 61 was a 1.22.5 roughly, if you remove this lap and every lap after lap 60, so just do 56-60 yeah he's faster than LEC because Ham's lap 56 was the fastest lap of the race, and the other laps were about the same pace as LEC: 57 Ham a bit faster, 58 LEC a bit faster, 59 about the same, 60 Ham a bit faster.

Seem a bit reductive to turn a 16+ laps stint in 4 laps and draw a conclusion.

[justmoi]

Eliminate the outliers from the data first. Say remove the or four slowest laps from Lec and Ham.

Ok, so tried removing the first 2, LEC warming up his tires + outlap, so starting from 56 and removed 62 and 64 where Ham made his passes:

https://i.imgur.com/5IizZbW.jpeg

Still slower.

LEC: 1.22.375
HAM: 1.22.529
VER: 1.23.422
SAI: 1.23.733

Still convinced LEC wasn't fastest?

Lap 61 and 63 should have been deleted as well because Hamilton was almost under 1 second of the car ahead and losing speed through corners. In addition, Leclerc would have set the fastest lap time if he was faster at the last soft stint

This is kind of what I was trying to point out, as far as discussions about the last stint are concerned. You can spin data however you want to. Lewis was the fastest in that stint. Right up until he didn't need to be. No offense to anyone whatsoever

[ismail1991]

I just have guessed that one lap before overtaking he should lose speed because of the wake of the car ahead. You are right I should have checked better. However, there is no reason to compare the stints which didnt happen at the same time. There is one easy way to understand who was the faster car by checking the fastest lap time. Leclerc should have had the fastest lap if he was faster. 1 point of fastest lap is very important for the championship. I am sure ferrari and leclerc tried to get it but they failed

[chrisc90]

The Crofty commentating blunder

[organic]

[Mandrake]

So fastest single lap decides the fastest car / driver? Okay..... Sure.

We can only look at the data, as soon as you bring intent into it it will not make sense anymore anyways.

LEC was probably super pissed and had almost given up. Hamilton on the other hand was fighting for P2. So he intended to go faster than Leclerc one could argue....