2022 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, July 29 - 31

[Oleo]

Why wasn't Leclerc able to clear Perez in the last stint? I don't think there was much of a gap between them when he came out of the pits

Gap was 7 or 8 seconds. Perez was flying though, he gained like 15 - 20 seconds on Russell in last stint.

[ismail1991]

Eliminate the outliers from the data first. Say remove the or four slowest laps from Lec and Ham.

Ok, so tried removing the first 2, LEC warming up his tires + outlap, so starting from 56 and removed 62 and 64 where Ham made his passes:

https://i.imgur.com/5IizZbW.jpeg

Still slower.

LEC: 1.22.375
HAM: 1.22.529
VER: 1.23.422
SAI: 1.23.733

Still convinced LEC wasn't fastest?

You know what?

I looked at the data myself.

The stints of Lewis and Charles are not really comparable, but we can force things a bit.
There were never close at all in tyre type/tyre life/fuel in their last two stints but for lap 57 to lap 60. A minuscule sample of 4 laps.

Lewis lap 57 to 60
81.386
81.942
81.831
81.805
average =81.741


Charles lap 57 to 60
81.622
81.988
81.762
81.890
average =81.8155


Lewis is faster here on older tyres. And even still, I wouldn't read much into this small sample. This is why data interpretation is important, or you will mislead people who are not numerically inclined.

Well done mate

[omegacel71]

Why wasn't Leclerc able to clear Perez in the last stint? I don't think there was much of a gap between them when he came out of the pits

Gap was 7 or 8 seconds. Perez was flying though, he gained like 15 - 20 seconds on Russell in last stint.

Perez must have really been flying because dialtone said leclerc was 2 tenths on average faster than Hamilton from lap 54 to end of race. Would be nice to see what median pace he had before the VSC

[Stu]

Sounded like a great race (audio listener); proper on-track racing, multiple strategies, NO RETIREMENTS!

These new tech regs are really working, take a look back to before the track was improved with the longer start/finish straight (and corresponding run to turn two) and the racing here was dull, dull, dull (Monaco-dull).
Fantastic race from MV, great race from LH, a real shame for GR; but I just wonder what in earth Ferrari were doing, their tyre wear/management must have been terrible - not adjusted from the super-hot Friday sessions? Other than DNFing, I cannot imagine a worse outcome for them.

[justmoi]

So fastest single lap decides the fastest car / driver? Okay..... Sure.

We can only look at the data, as soon as you bring intent into it it will not make sense anymore anyways.

LEC was probably super pissed and had almost given up. Hamilton on the other hand was fighting for P2. So he intended to go faster than Leclerc one could argue....

You're bringing 'intent' into it. Just pointing out

[saviour stivala]

When Leclerc came out of the pits on his used softs his tyres were already older them those of number 44 who had already done a couple of laps on them. The only tyre that suited FERRARI on race day was the medium, the one set they had left after FP2 for race start.

[justmoi]

About the race pace in the stints, just to reiterate, for me it wasn't about favouring any driver. It's not pro or anti Lewis for example. I simply noted a wrong conclusion and wanted to point it out. BUT the data in itself is appreciated of course.

Overall Charles was faster in the first two thirds and even copying Sainz strategy he would probably have won. As he, unlike Sainz, was very fast on the softs in the end, though not quite fastest.

And I just want to point out of course he would have had every reason to push in that stint. In a title fight, whatever the gap, you don't just give up! Even for a single (fastest lap) point. I'm actually surprised people are mentioning motivation. And he was closer to Perez than Lewis was to Sainz after their stops anyway. Every reason to push..

[Just_a_fan]

Nah, no way bias to Red Bull. How is it bias if one guy talks to one team principle more than the others, but yet you got presenters doing the exact opposite.

I mean:


"are you being handed this championship"

Well, they are being handed the championship. The other team with the car that is equal to their own keeps throwing away race wins and points.

Don't get me wrong, RBR and Max are maximising their chances, but they are being helped by Ferrari shooting themselves in both feet seemingly at every other race.

The way you are saying this and the sarcastic way Simon was saying that, there is a huge difference. It wreaks pain and frustraton on Simon's part that it was Max's team winning and not being challenged, rather than feeling pain of Ferrari losing and not having a genuine fight as a true F1 fan. They are two different things. Natalie was being a **** when she was asking Perez in post race interview in Spain if the team screwed him, at which point Red Bull was clear who was going to take the challeng to Ferrari, which all points to how much they dislike Max's team, while they don't have so much of a problem with Horner himself, who is a brit. They all ganged up and bigging up Perez to see if he can beat Max after Spain. I personally, painfully feel "red bull are being handed the championship" as Ferrari is screwing themselves over and over again. But it's not quite the same.

Paul comes off anti-Hamilton/Mercedes kind of man and Damon, Johnny, Ted, Simon, Natalie comes across as genuine anti-Max, pro-brit drivers and only Brundle, Anthony and Rachel comes across as neutral. It's not that hard to figure it out.

S'funny but the Sky team feel a bit Red Bull friendly to me, especially to Horner. Perhaps that really means that they're about right - if Red Bull fans think they're anti-Red Bull and non Red Bull fans think they're pro-Red Bull, they're probably actually fairly neutral with just the occasional slip either way.

[Just_a_fan]

I believe we have now evolved this season into one where we go into each race with 3 teams having a legitimate chance of winning. That is a good thing.

It's a bit late for the 2022 season, but if it translates to a full season on three-way fighting in 2023, that should be a vintage year.

[Just_a_fan]

Sounded like a great race (audio listener); proper on-track racing, multiple strategies, NO RETIREMENTS!

These new tech regs are really working, take a look back to before the track was improved with the longer start/finish straight (and corresponding run to turn two) and the racing here was dull, dull, dull (Monaco-dull).
Fantastic race from MV, great race from LH, a real shame for GR; but I just wonder what in earth Ferrari were doing, their tyre wear/management must have been terrible - not adjusted from the super-hot Friday sessions? Other than DNFing, I cannot imagine a worse outcome for them.

Bottas retired - it was what brought the VSC in to play near the end of the race.

[justmoi]

I think what is more significant and forgive me but I think it's been missed in the discusiion, is what exactly happened to Charles and why he had to pit a third time. I'll explain. I used live timing again after the race and while i haven't memorised the whole thing, I believe I noticed this...

After being repassed by Ves a second time, Charles was slower than him but not exactly 'slow'. Certainly wouldn't have had to waste another 19 seconds pitstop at that point. He set his fastest lap of the race on the hards. Was mostly faster than then 3rd placed George and at times lapped 'merely'' 0.4 seconds behind a very fast running Ves. Again, no reason to pit. He was generally at that point 2,5 to 3 seconds behind Ves or let me say Max. I thought that was fine with over 26 laps to go for Max and himself still. Hard tyre runners were setting their fastest laps in the 25 plus laps range. No need to pit. At that point he loses to only Max. Bad but better still
But seemingly all of a sudden the gap to Max goes to like 5.6 the 6 plus then 7 then George is right on his tail, then he is passed then pits, etc

What I am saying is his tyres actually seemed to quickly fall away, which was very strange. And is very different from slowly firing up to temperature which was the trend for other hard runners. What exactly happened to Charles in that stint? If I have the time I may go over the timing again if I missed something

[DChemTech]

It was odd eh, in an interview Binitto said they expected 10 slower laps due to heating problems first, but their sims showed the tire would come alive the last 10 laps. Be it a cooler track or be it something else, they pitted him again before it did.

[oT v1]

Sorry if it’s been discussed but did anyone else see the orange material sticking out of Sainz’s engine cover gills? Thought it was a bit odd as it wasn’t symmetrical or on Lec’s car..

[Mandrake]

So fastest single lap decides the fastest car / driver? Okay..... Sure.

We can only look at the data, as soon as you bring intent into it it will not make sense anymore anyways.

LEC was probably super pissed and had almost given up. Hamilton on the other hand was fighting for P2. So he intended to go faster than Leclerc one could argue....

You're bringing 'intent' into it. Just pointing out

Nope, you we're bringing it in first by saying after passing Russell, Hamilton then slowed down because he doesn't need to push anymore so that's why his average laptime is slower than Leclercs. I was just giving an opposite example for Leclerc. Neither of us know about their actual intent, so the data is all we have.

I don't care which car was the fastest in what stint, the fastest car this race was neither Ferrari, nor Mercedes, it was a red bull because it completed the 70 laps in shortest amount of time. Not via the fastest laptimes, but being consistently among the fastest cars while applying the correct strategy during race day.

[justmoi]

So fastest single lap decides the fastest car / driver? Okay..... Sure.

We can only look at the data, as soon as you bring intent into it it will not make sense anymore anyways.

LEC was probably super pissed and had almost given up. Hamilton on the other hand was fighting for P2. So he intended to go faster than Leclerc one could argue....

You're bringing 'intent' into it. Just pointing out

Nope, you we're bringing it in first by saying after passing Russell, Hamilton then slowed down because he doesn't need to push anymore so that's why his average laptime is slower than Leclercs. I was just giving an opposite example for Leclerc. Neither of us know about their actual intent, so the data is all we have.

I don't care which car was the fastest in what stint, the fastest car this race was neither Ferrari, nor Mercedes, it was a red bull because it completed the 70 laps in shortest amount of time. Not via the fastest laptimes, but being consistently among the fastest cars while applying the correct strategy during race day.

Oh I see where you're coming from.cBut Lewis being 10s behind Max at the end of a long hard race with only 4 laps left bringing the car home is a pretty much racing certainty if we've learnt anyrhing over these long years. It's way way more valid than saying a wdc contender has no motivation to push for example. Anyway what do we do? We can extrapolate from the laps they would have been pushing.
Anyway, again, I get where you're coming from but no, sometimes, you cannot just look at data. That would be misleading to overall goals. In any field even. There will always be context, for realism.

Oh and by what you say I agree 100 percent. Max was the fastest driver in the race for sure. I believe even when I mentioned Charles being fastest I said for two thirds of the race.

It doesn't bother me either which car was fastest in the race. We were pointing things out in the race