2022 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, July 29 - 31

[Zynerji]

But imagine this, the car is not able of riding a kerb without unsettling the rear so you can’t go on the gas without being sure how the car will react until it has settled it self. But you turn in late aggressively jump the kerb as straight as possible and go on the gas too early and it works as this time it settled in the hoped way. Have you then been faster then what the car allows for, depending on your skill and the luck of the draw?

I think:

tCarMin = 1.00
tDriverExtract = % of tCarMin

One cannot drive at 101%, it would just reset what the tCarMin is.

[Sieper]

that's a nice way to put it, in fact the boundary is then pushed. Perhaps that is a nice and deserving way to describe a performance in qualy that wasnt expected to be in the achievable envelope, the driver was pushing the boundaries. Outperform is indeed such an overused and in fact impossible hyperbole.

But yeah, semantics.

[bonjon1979]

Why are teams allowed to change engines, exhausts etc between qualy and race? Seems a bit odd that you can’t adjust a wing but you can swap out a whole engine?

[Sieper]

That is a relatively new development. Since Silverstone that is allowed. The why. Well. Like for like. So reducing the chance on a DNS when you have any doubt.

[Andres125sx]

Which is why I said George did a great job getting the car to perform for him.

I disagree that a driver can achieve a higher result than the car is capable of. All the driver can do is get as close to the car's maximum performance as possible. A driver can improve the car's position in a race by clever racing/strategy, yes, but the car has a single inherent best possible lap time no matter who is driving it - it's just that some drivers don't get as close to that time as others do.

The best drivers are the ones that are most consistently able to get close to a car's best possible lap time at any stage and do so lap after lap. That's what sets the Michaels, the Ayrtons, the Fernandos, the Lewises, the Maxes apart from the rest - the ability to get more of a car's performance for more of the time. Think about Lewis chasing down Max in Hungary or Max doing the same to Lewis in France. Both great drives, yes, but it was because they just drove the car as close to its available performance for lap after lap - they weren't driving faster than the car was capable. Michael used to be great at that - Brawn would tell him "you need 5 qualifying-style laps before pitting" and Michael would do 5 qualifying-style laps. No one "out drives" the car (or any other silliness that the media love to say to promote a narrative).

What if Russell gets 98% out of his car, and the rivals get 95%, so despite Mercedes is a slower car Rusell manage to put it on pole?

I said that - drivers can get more out of a car than others might.

I´ve never used the term outdrive or whatever, but since drivers are not robots, yes, a really good lap can put X car higher than it should really be, if the driver did it better that the rest of drivers, or if they did some mistake

Again, you're saying a driver can put a car higher than it should be. They can't. The car can either do the lap time or it can't. George did a sensational job, no one is denying it, but the time he did is what the car is capable of, no more.

Media enjoy sensationalistic terms to get some clicks and views, but some others around here also enjoy sensationalism and statements like "none can outdrive his car because physics are physics". Yes, but drivers are drivers, not robots, so results can change drastically depending on drivers perfomance, wich means that cars can also qualify higher or lower than it should really be if the driver got from it more than his rivals, obviously he can´t get more than 100%, but he can certainly get more than his rivals

It's the "higher than it should do" that annoys me. If the driver does a lap time, then it's because the car is capable of that time. All a driver can do is perform better than those in the similar cars (so just his team mate, in F1).

When Senna qualified in Monaco 1.4s faster than Prost in 1988, that was just because Prost wasn't able to get the lap time out of the car. The car was capable of doing it or Senna wouldn't have got the time he got. Likewise Hamilton being 1.5s faster than Bottas in qualifying for the 2020 Styrian Grand Prix. Hamilton just got more out of the car than Bottas did. The car was capable of that time (and perhaps even quicker).

You don't get what I mean....

I'm not saying they can get a faster time than possible, that's not possible I'm saying if car A is fastest, and car B second, 2 tenths behind, if driver on car A do a good lap but not perfect, let's say 2.2 tenths from the car potential, if driver on car B do an almost perfect lap, he'll get the pole, even if his car is not the fastest.

He didn't do magic, the car didn't do a faster than possible lap, but the driver managed to put it higher than it should really be.

Problem is if you just say driver A messed it up, I find it extremely arrogant and irrespectful with driver A, he does not deserve the bashing , but driver B deserve huge praising, so I prefer saying driver B put his car higher than it should really be

[Mandrake]

Man George is doing his very best to join the list of unlikable people. His interviews now about Ferrari and Red Bull evidently cheating, after the summer break they'll be much closer cause it will hurt everyone bar Mercedes, yadda yadda..... I liked him very much at Williams but what have they done to him at Mercedes?

[chrisc90]

Man George is doing his very best to join the list of unlikable people. His interviews now about Ferrari and Red Bull evidently cheating, after the summer break they'll be much closer cause it will hurt everyone bar Mercedes, yadda yadda..... I liked him very much at Williams but what have they done to him at Mercedes?

I said it before, George will quickly change when he gets into Mercedes. Shame really. He should be more laid back like Norris, or Max with their true character rather than a PR front.

[wesley123]

Man George is doing his very best to join the list of unlikable people. His interviews now about Ferrari and Red Bull evidently cheating, after the summer break they'll be much closer cause it will hurt everyone bar Mercedes, yadda yadda..... I liked him very much at Williams but what have they done to him at Mercedes?

Turns out that when you are third fastest and consistently steal podiums that would be theirs you get questions about the other teams. This doesn't seem particularly strange, nor does it seem strange that you would answer in a fashion that aligns with the team you're currently driving for.

People really trying their best to justify anything just to hate Mercedes.

[Big Tea]

Man George is doing his very best to join the list of unlikable people. His interviews now about Ferrari and Red Bull evidently cheating, after the summer break they'll be much closer cause it will hurt everyone bar Mercedes, yadda yadda..... I liked him very much at Williams but what have they done to him at Mercedes?

Turns out that when you are third fastest and consistently steal podiums that would be theirs you get questions about the other teams. This doesn't seem particularly strange, nor does it seem strange that you would answer in a fashion that aligns with the team you're currently driving for.

People really trying their best to justify anything just to hate Mercedes.

What he said is pushing the limits, not cheating.
All F1 teams push the limits, or they are not trying or did not think of it soon enough

[chrisc90]

I mean its pretty out there to openly suggest the 2 teams that are faster than you are cheating. Thats quite a big statement to make.

If GR and Mercedes think either RB or Ferrari are cheating.....stick a protest in.

[vanburin]

I said it before, George will quickly change when he gets into Mercedes. Shame really. He should be more laid back like Norris, or Max with their true character rather than a PR front.

Are you actually trying to say that Max doesn't just regurgitate the PR spin of Marko, Horner, and Red Bull as a whole? Or that he is laid back? Every driver is fed the script from the PR machine to follow.

The reality is no one (relatively speaking) cared what GR said when he was with Williams, and didn't exactly grill him on the ongoings of the top teams and their interpretations of the regulations when Williams was basically in no mans land. You move up to a top team, you're going to get questions. Pointed questions.

[jknights]

Well we can wait for Spa and see if RB and Ferrari suddenly lose pace.
If yes then QED, if not then GR will need to eat his words.

[bonjon1979]

That is a relatively new development. Since Silverstone that is allowed. The why. Well. Like for like. So reducing the chance on a DNS when you have any doubt.

Right, it what’s to stop teams having more of a qualy engine and then a different one for the race, seems a bit bizarre that there’s no penalty to change a whole power unit.

[Alexf1]

That is a relatively new development. Since Silverstone that is allowed. The why. Well. Like for like. So reducing the chance on a DNS when you have any doubt.

Right, it what’s to stop teams having more of a qualy engine and then a different one for the race, seems a bit bizarre that there’s no penalty to change a whole power unit.

But there is, look at Gasly who put in new engine parts without a good reason according to the FIA. They put him in the pitlane instead of back of the grid: "All the PU components for Pierre Gasly have been replaced without the approval of the FIA
technical delegate and this is not in accordance with Article 40.3 of the 2022 Formula One
Sporting Regulations. Therefore car number 10 should now be required to start the Race
from the pit lane according to Article 40.9 b) of the 2022 Formula One Sporting Regulations."

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files ... issues.pdf

[Alexf1]

Well we can wait for Spa and see if RB and Ferrari suddenly lose pace.
If yes then QED, if not then GR will need to eat his words.

Could be the running order is exactly the same at Spa cause if the planned chassis upgrade (weight loss and performance) + ERS upgrade is put on the RB18 and the alleged flexi floor is not it could even itself out. And as for Ferrari, if the engine reliability fix + ERS upgrade is ready their PU could be turned back up.