2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

[runningmanz]

"Check, call or fold? The options facing Ricciardo in silly season’s silliest twist"

https://www.foxsports.com.au/motorsport ... a536000f03

[SmallSoldier]

I think nick de vries and vandoorne, but same point and your probably right.

What about a sim of the car from last year or the year before? I wonder if they had some way of assessing or if they just know the car actually is driveable.

Too many unknowns right now.

You have Oliver as sim driver… And both Lando and Daniel use it to… If Oliver’s lap times are closer to Lando than Daniel’s then you have a reference point… I don’t think the car is that difficult to drive, both Lando and Carlos had great races with the MCL35, which probably is the closest car to the MCL35M… It just needs different inputs to maximize it.

I don’t see it much different than for example Gasly going from Alpha Tauri to Red Bull and struggling as much as he did)… It was just a different handling and Gasly was only given 6 months to adjust to it… I don’t think he was as slow as he appeared to be against Max, he just didn’t had the background of Daniel to try to blame it on the car


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The car is not easy to drive. Lando said it, Carlos said it and we have seen the difficulties Dan has had with the design philosphy. It doesn't gel with his style of braking early, trail braking through the corner and getting on the power early.

How did Dan go from TR to Red Bull and wipe the floor with Vettel then in 2014? He never had trouble like Gasly did going a similar route. The McLaren is a uniquely quirky car. Its not like Dan hasn't had any good races either despite the trouble he has had, like beating Lando in Spain in 21 winning in Monza and outscoring Lando in the back half of 21. Nor does Gasly have the proven track record of Ricciardo beating many well regarded teammates in various teams including going toe to toe with Verstappen who could end up arguably the best F1 driver ever.

There is no need for the sensationalism like “wipe the floor” with Vettel… He did beat Vettel in 2014, who apparently had similar problems extracting the most of that Red Bull as Daniel apparently is with the McLaren (as well as clearly stating his intention to move to Ferrari and the like of motivation he may have had that season).

But, comparing Daniel’s move from TR to Red Bull to Gasly’s in terms of been “the same” move is absurd… The regulations change dramatically from 2013-2014 to 2018-2019, for all we know the Red Bull of 2014 could have handle very similar to the TR, while in 2019 they were completely different cars… We can’t say that they had a “very similar route”, what is true is that Gasly was considered a solid / fast driver until he went to Red Bull and suddenly struggle a lot in a different car.

The MCL36 could be quirky, could be different, but that doesn’t mean that is a bad car or hard to drive… It is hard for Daniel, but both Carlos and Lando extracted performance from a similar package before he joined… Lando and Carlos haven’t said that is a hard drive to car, is simply different and can be fast as proven by Dan’s own win in Monza.

I fully agree that it doesn’t gel with his style, which is the crux of the problem, he can’t adapt to it… He has had a year and a half to do so and is just not in his tool bag… He has been outqualified 11 times out of 13 races this season (and would probably have been 12 out of 13 if Lando wouldn’t have had engine issues in Canada)… That’s the reality of the situation… He has scored 1 point for every 4 Lando has this season… That’s a big difference in terms of performance and it can’t be ignored.

I like Daniel as a person, but Formula 1 is about results and he has not delivered what is expected from him… If there is a possibility for him to deliver somewhere else, he should take it, because with every passing weekend and every subpar performance, his stock in F1 keeps going down and that’s not good for him.

[Lucky]

I fail to see why any Ricciardo fan would want him to stay at McLaren given his issues with both cars and performance vs Lando thus far.

Despite making a weird car to drive, McLaren are overall a better team than Alpine and dont quit the sport every time the wind changes direction.

Ric should be glad the destruction is over. Okon is much weaker than Norris.

[JPower]

I fail to see why any Ricciardo fan would want him to stay at McLaren given his issues with both cars and performance vs Lando thus far.

Despite making a weird car to drive, McLaren are overall a better team than Alpine and dont quit the sport every time the wind changes direction.

Staying isn't helping his career. None of the teams on the grid are leaving anytime soon. The longer he continues to get smacked around by Lando, the worse his chances at getting his next contract.

He's on pace for 35-40 points this season. A 2023 season with a similar result and he's out of F1.

[shotzski]

I don't know if this is the correct thread but still involves Mclaren.

Is it possible, Zak would get Oscar and loan him to other team for 2023 racing seat. Then take him back in the Mclaren fold for 2024?
That is if Daniel contract buy-out is not an option

[Lucky]

I don't know if this is the correct thread but still involves Mclaren.

Is it possible, Zak would get Oscar and loan him to other team for 2023 racing seat. Then take him back in the Mclaren fold for 2024? That is they are not willing to buy-out Daniel's contract.

Ric will leave of his own accord.

[SmallSoldier]

I don't know if this is the correct thread but still involves Mclaren.

Is it possible, Zak would get Oscar and loan him to other team for 2023 racing seat. Then take him back in the Mclaren fold for 2024?
That is if Daniel contract buy-out is not an option

It’s possible… But, why would Piastri say not to a deal with Alpine to be a reserve driver someone where else? It would be very strange from Piastri to decline a seat in Alpine for 2023 to then be on loan to a back marker (because, where else would McLaren place him?)

[SmallSoldier]

I don't know if this is the correct thread but still involves Mclaren.

Is it possible, Zak would get Oscar and loan him to other team for 2023 racing seat. Then take him back in the Mclaren fold for 2024? That is they are not willing to buy-out Daniel's contract.

Ric will leave of his own accord.

I know that is has been “reported” that Daniel is in full control of his contract… But when Zak said in Monaco that there were mechanisms in his contract to terminate the relationship, I’m sure that McLaren has a way to terminate it early… The fact that McLaren (Zak, Seidl) hasn’t come out to deny the rumors about Daniel’s control over his contract is because they just don’t want to add fuel to the fire after the storm that was created with the initial comment.

They don’t care if everyone thinks that they have no say in the situation, it’s not like with Alpine where they have to have the last word or show how much in control they are

[djos]

There is no need for the sensationalism like “wipe the floor” with Vettel… He did beat Vettel in 2014, who apparently had similar problems extracting the most of that Red Bull as Daniel apparently is with the McLaren (as well as clearly stating his intention to move to Ferrari and the like of motivation he may have had that season).

How else can you reasonably define 3 wins to 0 and 3rd place in the WDC? On a pure race by race basis, he beat Vettel 13 to 6 - Qualifying was much more even tho with 9 to 8, still in Daniel's favour.

[djos]

I fail to see why any Ricciardo fan would want him to stay at McLaren given his issues with both cars and performance vs Lando thus far.

Despite making a weird car to drive, McLaren are overall a better team than Alpine and dont quit the sport every time the wind changes direction.

Staying isn't helping his career. None of the teams on the grid are leaving anytime soon. The longer he continues to get smacked around by Lando, the worse his chances at getting his next contract.

True, I'll still be sad to see him leave McLaren.

[SmallSoldier]

There is no need for the sensationalism like “wipe the floor” with Vettel… He did beat Vettel in 2014, who apparently had similar problems extracting the most of that Red Bull as Daniel apparently is with the McLaren (as well as clearly stating his intention to move to Ferrari and the like of motivation he may have had that season).

How else can you reasonably define 3 wins to 0 and 3rd place in the WDC? On a pure race by race basis, he beat Vettel 13 to 6 - Qualifying was much more even tho with 9 to 8, still in Daniel's favour.

Because it’s unnecessary to make the same point and it just elicits and emotional response from others… Under those parameters how would we call what Norris is doing to Daniel this season? Because from an stat perspective, let’s just say that is worse than Daniel vs Vettel… If we want to have a good discussion, it’s better to avoid those type of characterizations.

Daniel beat Vettel in 2014, no denying about that… He had probably his best season in F1 and made a name for himself… For me the only funny thing is when we use those cold end of the season stats to make a point (like you just mentioned that Daniel beat Vettel in race finishing position or qualifying), but when the stat doesn’t go in his favor, the answer is: The stats aren’t everything… We can’t have it both ways or just apply them when they are convenient for our argument.

[Mclarensenna]

You have Oliver as sim driver… And both Lando and Daniel use it to… If Oliver’s lap times are closer to Lando than Daniel’s then you have a reference point… I don’t think the car is that difficult to drive, both Lando and Carlos had great races with the MCL35, which probably is the closest car to the MCL35M… It just needs different inputs to maximize it.

I don’t see it much different than for example Gasly going from Alpha Tauri to Red Bull and struggling as much as he did)… It was just a different handling and Gasly was only given 6 months to adjust to it… I don’t think he was as slow as he appeared to be against Max, he just didn’t had the background of Daniel to try to blame it on the car


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The car is not easy to drive. Lando said it, Carlos said it and we have seen the difficulties Dan has had with the design philosphy. It doesn't gel with his style of braking early, trail braking through the corner and getting on the power early.

How did Dan go from TR to Red Bull and wipe the floor with Vettel then in 2014? He never had trouble like Gasly did going a similar route. The McLaren is a uniquely quirky car. Its not like Dan hasn't had any good races either despite the trouble he has had, like beating Lando in Spain in 21 winning in Monza and outscoring Lando in the back half of 21. Nor does Gasly have the proven track record of Ricciardo beating many well regarded teammates in various teams including going toe to toe with Verstappen who could end up arguably the best F1 driver ever.

There is no need for the sensationalism like “wipe the floor” with Vettel… He did beat Vettel in 2014, who apparently had similar problems extracting the most of that Red Bull as Daniel apparently is with the McLaren (as well as clearly stating his intention to move to Ferrari and the like of motivation he may have had that season).

But, comparing Daniel’s move from TR to Red Bull to Gasly’s in terms of been “the same” move is absurd… The regulations change dramatically from 2013-2014 to 2018-2019, for all we know the Red Bull of 2014 could have handle very similar to the TR, while in 2019 they were completely different cars… We can’t say that they had a “very similar route”, what is true is that Gasly was considered a solid / fast driver until he went to Red Bull and suddenly struggle a lot in a different car.

The MCL36 could be quirky, could be different, but that doesn’t mean that is a bad car or hard to drive… It is hard for Daniel, but both Carlos and Lando extracted performance from a similar package before he joined… Lando and Carlos haven’t said that is a hard drive to car, is simply different and can be fast as proven by Dan’s own win in Monza.

I fully agree that it doesn’t gel with his style, which is the crux of the problem, he can’t adapt to it… He has had a year and a half to do so and is just not in his tool bag… He has been outqualified 11 times out of 13 races this season (and would probably have been 12 out of 13 if Lando wouldn’t have had engine issues in Canada)… That’s the reality of the situation… He has scored 1 point for every 4 Lando has this season… That’s a big difference in terms of performance and it can’t be ignored.

I like Daniel as a person, but Formula 1 is about results and he has not delivered what is expected from him… If there is a possibility for him to deliver somewhere else, he should take it, because with every passing weekend and every subpar performance, his stock in F1 keeps going down and that’s not good for him.

There is no need for the sensationalism like “wipe the floor” with Vettel… He did beat Vettel in 2014, who apparently had similar problems extracting the most of that Red Bull as Daniel apparently is with the McLaren (as well as clearly stating his intention to move to Ferrari and the like of motivation he may have had that season).

<---- Somebody states a fact about Vettel and Ric and accuse them of sensationalism?
Ric had 3 wins to Vettels 0. And each time was behind him on track, had to pass him then proceed to lap 1-2 seconds a lap quicker to win. It was not just down to luck on Rics side and unluck on Vettels side.
Ric had to do all the passing and talk on track from behind Vettel in all 3 wins. That is the key point which makes Rics performances 10 times more impressive.

And In a car custom designed around Vettel which he knew like the back of his hand for 6 years by Newey himself. Dan was the complete 1st year rookie in the team also. This is the key part. Im struggling to think of any other driver in history who got thrashed in this exact way. It was a complete destruction derby.

Look at just SPA 2014
https://en.mclarenf-1.com/2014/gp/s7383 ... s/702-786/

Vettel was ahead of Ric on track so he had track position so no excuse he never won that race. Ric overtook him, then proceeded to lap 1-2 seconds a lap quicker the entire race and ended up winning with Vettel falling all the way back to 5th a massive 52 seconds behind.

Seriously 1-2 seconds a lap qucker and winning 3 races from behind Vettel are somehow not even considered “wiping the floor with you” But sensationalism ?

What do you consider wiping the floor then so you don’t attack a poster accusing them of sensationalism?

Ric had to lap 4 seconds a lap quicker and lap Vettel each race? You just trolling now its evident.
Please try stick to the truth in future for the benefit of new members who never watched the 2014 season.

[SmallSoldier]

There is no need for the sensationalism like “wipe the floor” with Vettel… He did beat Vettel in 2014, who apparently had similar problems extracting the most of that Red Bull as Daniel apparently is with the McLaren (as well as clearly stating his intention to move to Ferrari and the like of motivation he may have had that season).

<---- Somebody states a fact about Vettel and Ric and accuse them of sensationalism?
Ric had 3 wins to Vettels 0. And each time was behind him on track, had to pass him then proceed to lap 1-2 seconds a lap quicker to win. It was not just down to luck on Rics side and unluck on Vettels side.
Ric had to do all the passing and talk on track from behind Vettel in all 3 wins. That is the key point which makes Rics performances 10 times more impressive.

And In a car custom designed around Vettel which he knew like the back of his hand for 6 years by Newey himself. Dan was the complete 1st year rookie in the team also. This is the key part. Im struggling to think of any other driver in history who got thrashed in this exact way. It was a complete destruction derby.

Look at just SPA 2014
https://en.mclarenf-1.com/2014/gp/s7383 ... s/702-786/

Vettel was ahead of Ric on track so he had track position so no excuse he never won that race. Ric overtook him, then proceeded to lap 1-2 seconds a lap quicker the entire race and ended up winning with Vettel falling all the way back to 5th a massive 52 seconds behind.

Seriously 1-2 seconds a lap qucker and winning 3 races from behind Vettel are somehow not even considered “wiping the floor with you” But sensationalism ?

What do you consider wiping the floor then so you don’t attack a poster accusing them of sensationalism?

Ric had to lap 4 seconds a lap quicker and lap Vettel each race? You just trolling now its evident.
Please try stick to the truth in future for the benefit of new members who never watched the 2014 season.

Did I say that Daniel didn’t beat Vettel? I’m only arguing that there is no need for the whole “He wiped the floor with him”, that is sensationalism and not needed for a discussion.

And regarding the whole Vettel had 6 seasons in Red Bull, the 2014 cars where part of a new set of regulations, from the Engines, the ERS, new wings and new noses… So no, they weren’t the same as in previous seasons.

[djos]

Did I say that Daniel didn’t beat Vettel? I’m only arguing that there is no need for the whole “He wiped the floor with him”, that is sensationalism and not needed for a discussion.

And regarding the whole Vettel had 6 seasons in Red Bull, the 2014 cars where part of a new set of regulations, from the Engines, the ERS, new wings and new noses… So no, they weren’t the same as in previous seasons.

It really isnt tho, not even Max the Mighty managed to do this to Daniel in his first year at RBR, for Daniel to utterly dominate Seb the way he did, was literally sensational!

[Mclarensenna]

There is no need for the sensationalism like “wipe the floor” with Vettel… He did beat Vettel in 2014, who apparently had similar problems extracting the most of that Red Bull as Daniel apparently is with the McLaren (as well as clearly stating his intention to move to Ferrari and the like of motivation he may have had that season).

<---- Somebody states a fact about Vettel and Ric and accuse them of sensationalism?
Ric had 3 wins to Vettels 0. And each time was behind him on track, had to pass him then proceed to lap 1-2 seconds a lap quicker to win. It was not just down to luck on Rics side and unluck on Vettels side.
Ric had to do all the passing and talk on track from behind Vettel in all 3 wins. That is the key point which makes Rics performances 10 times more impressive.

And In a car custom designed around Vettel which he knew like the back of his hand for 6 years by Newey himself. Dan was the complete 1st year rookie in the team also. This is the key part. Im struggling to think of any other driver in history who got thrashed in this exact way. It was a complete destruction derby.

Look at just SPA 2014
https://en.mclarenf-1.com/2014/gp/s7383 ... s/702-786/

Vettel was ahead of Ric on track so he had track position so no excuse he never won that race. Ric overtook him, then proceeded to lap 1-2 seconds a lap quicker the entire race and ended up winning with Vettel falling all the way back to 5th a massive 52 seconds behind.

Seriously 1-2 seconds a lap qucker and winning 3 races from behind Vettel are somehow not even considered “wiping the floor with you” But sensationalism ?

What do you consider wiping the floor then so you don’t attack a poster accusing them of sensationalism?

Ric had to lap 4 seconds a lap quicker and lap Vettel each race? You just trolling now its evident.
Please try stick to the truth in future for the benefit of new members who never watched the 2014 season.

Did I say that Daniel didn’t beat Vettel? I’m only arguing that there is no need for the whole “He wiped the floor with him”, that is sensationalism and not needed for a discussion.

And regarding the whole Vettel had 6 seasons in Red Bull, the 2014 cars where part of a new set of regulations, from the Engines, the ERS, new wings and new noses… So no, they weren’t the same as in previous seasons.

Seriously 1-2 seconds a lap qucker and winning 3 races from behind Vettel are somehow not even considered “wiping the floor with you” But sensationalism ?

What do you consider wiping the floor then so you don’t attack a poster accusing them of sensationalism?

Ric had to lap 4 seconds a lap quicker and lap Vettel each race? You just trolling now its evident.
Please try stick to the truth in future for the benefit of new members who never watched the 2014 season.