vorticism wrote: ↑09 Aug 2022, 21:36
You are framing yourself and/or the West as some sort of vanguard of environmentalism or moral superiority which will imprint upon the, as you presumably denote them, poorer nations (those who are not 'rich countries'). However, the non-Western world does not look up to the West as a father figure, much as you and Andres125 may wish them to. They look at the West as akin to an equal, or as competition, or as inferior, or something to consume and exploit; not something to willing integrate into at the loss of themselves.
Who said that? Not me, period. Leading by example does not mean you feel superior at all mate, that´s a weird conclussion sincerely
Leading by example only means that you think there must be some changes, and to prove your point you start those changes yourself. Otherwise you´d be a hypocritical and barefaced asking others to do things you can´t do yourself.
Leading by example only means you´re conviced of your own ideas and prove it with facts, doing exactly what you claim, nothing more, nothing less.
vorticism wrote: ↑09 Aug 2022, 21:36
You pine for justice yet ultimately seek some kind of diffusion of justice upon the masses whom had nothing to do with the infraction. This is, as mentioned before, advocating for externalities. Why would you do that? Are you an investment banker? If you want justice for the carbon emissions of recently industrialized nations, then identify who moved industry out of the West. Identify the bankers and barons who built up the industry and sweatshops in those nations who are now carbon threats. Those are your culprits, not the underclasses of the West who played no role in economic policy nor capital allocation, who obviously would not have voted for the gutting of their own domestic industries. Identify the culprits, then apply the justice: a carbon tax, a climate justice factor, or whatever, via taxation, fines, imprisonment, or death penalty. If we hold individuals with names responsible, the precision of and scope of consequences will begin to become more clear. How serious are we really about this so called climate justice?
I appreciate this line of discussion regardless because this is the 'technical' side of policy decisions. People forget that society is a machine which has its engineers.
Sorry to say this but this part is quite easy and immature. I´m not a banker so I´m not responsible....
Where are you from? Who did you vote in last elections? Did you ask to solve some of those problems at some point? Did you complain about your government when they didn´t do anything to stop this nosense?
Maybe we are not bankers or CEOs of petrol companies, but politicians do what people ask them to do. We like to bash them, but in the end
they only do what they think will provide votes. If a vast majority of people would be asking for a massive reduction in emissions since the 80s, you can be sure it would have happened, but people, the vast majority of people at least, has always considered this as a fanatic point of view from eco-friendly nerds who don´t have a life, so they (politicians) did the same.
People has a responsibility for what our governments do, at least people from democracies like all western countries, wich is the point, we can´t dodge responsibility this easily and point fingers to politicians, if they´re responsible, we are responsible.
And this comes from someone who didn´t vote any of these nerds ever, who ask for this solutions for decades, so probably one of the few westerns who could actually dodge responsibility for western innaction, as I´ve been asking for some action for decades, but as a society, we westerns are responsible of current situation, like it or not