2023 car speculation

[aleks_ader]

Could they maybe mandate 15mm 'stand off's' at points along the edge?

How do you mean?

As they have with the plank. Skidblocks of a set length that cannot grind down below a stated length.
Places say front middle and rear of the floor edge either side.

In any case u open another can of worms. Still. Is it fair towards any engineers in any team? That's another discussion for another thread. And how will that effect Merc design is just a guess. We can see their tendencies how their floor develops here on track.

As we can see Merc really took its ground and said lets try to explore our design and tried really make it work. They literally threw everything at it. They even "risk" it with no Wind tunnel confirmed updates straight from CFD. That's development step i m impressed the most.

[AR3-GP]

I haven't consulted the regs, but I believe currently the floor edges can be designed to rest on the reference plane. For 2023 they'll have to be at least 15mm above the ref plane.

It sounds like the FIA will more tightly police excessive floor edge flexing as a result which has been visible on the W13.

A number of cars run with the floor edges on / near the ground. Just like the mythical "Mercedes has a flexing front wing" that ignores everyone else doing exactly the same.

The question isn't whether or not teams are running their floor edge near the ground. The question is stiffness. Mercedes is one of the first teams to adopt multiple floor stays.

[Just_a_fan]

It sounds like the FIA will more tightly police excessive floor edge flexing as a result which has been visible on the W13.

A number of cars run with the floor edges on / near the ground. Just like the mythical "Mercedes has a flexing front wing" that ignores everyone else doing exactly the same.

The question isn't whether or not teams are running their floor edge near the ground. The question is stiffness. Mercedes is one of the first teams to adopt multiple floor stays.

They have the same number of stays as every other team.

[AR3-GP]

A number of cars run with the floor edges on / near the ground. Just like the mythical "Mercedes has a flexing front wing" that ignores everyone else doing exactly the same.

The question isn't whether or not teams are running their floor edge near the ground. The question is stiffness. Mercedes is one of the first teams to adopt multiple floor stays.

They have the same number of stays as every other team.

The W13 has been one of the cars with the most flexible floor edge due to the highly cantilevered and exposed floor section. This is due to physics. Mercedes even experimented with running an additional floor stay in Canada to increase floor rigidity. It's something they will likely need to improve for next year.

[dave kumar]

Can anyone explain (in simple terms!), what the FIA are trying to achieve by raising the floor by 15mm above the reference plane? Is it to reduce the amount of porpoising or is it to do with preventing accidents due to a sudden loss of downforce whilst cornering?

Presumably it is something to do with a loss of downforce when the floor touches the ground but I don't understand why. I thought the underbody tunnels were designed to prevent dramatic loss of downforce when ride height changes?

[BlueCheetah66]

Can anyone explain (in simple terms!), what the FIA are trying to achieve by raising the floor by 15mm above the reference plane? Is it to reduce the amount of porpoising or is it to do with preventing accidents due to a sudden loss of downforce whilst cornering?

Presumably it is something to do with a loss of downforce when the floor touches the ground but I don't understand why. I thought the underbody tunnels were designed to prevent dramatic loss of downforce when ride height changes?

What it is essentially is raising the ride height without having to actually have to state they have raised the ride heights. It is just to reduce the downforce from the floor. I wonder how much balance issues this will cause with Pirelli also developing better front tyres for 2023. Might be more difficult for drivers that prefer a rearward balance

[dave kumar]

So a reduction on downforce from the floor rather than trying to prevent the floor 'stalling' (or whatever causes the sudden loss of downforce), in certain conditions. But then the teams will claw back this downforce by other means and we'll be back where we started?

[AR3-GP]

So a reduction on downforce from the floor rather than trying to prevent the floor 'stalling' (or whatever causes the sudden loss of downforce), in certain conditions. But then the teams will claw back this downforce by other means and we'll be back where we started?

No, because the FIA will monitor porpoising via accelerometers which means teams have a target they must adhere to regardless of any ad hoc floor height solutions.

The change the floor height is pointless as you say since we will be back where we started soon enough., but perhaps the powers that be must be seen to have "done something" from a legal point of view.

[vorticism]

Aston Martin is smart they consulted with the FIA throughout its development it’s unlikely to get banned next year.

However, Aston Martin performance director Tom McCullough has revealed that as well as the FIA being happy with the regulatory aspect of the design, it was also satisfied that the concept did not scupper the intent of the rules to help the racing.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/asto ... /10351971/

Endplates on more cars then?

[mendis]

Aston Martin is smart they consulted with the FIA throughout its development it’s unlikely to get banned next year.

However, Aston Martin performance director Tom McCullough has revealed that as well as the FIA being happy with the regulatory aspect of the design, it was also satisfied that the concept did not scupper the intent of the rules to help the racing.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/asto ... /10351971/

Endplates on more cars then?

As reported, it produces a lot of drag and hence an option only for high downforce circuits like Monaco, Hungary and Singapore.

[vorticism]

Many unique features this season; which ones will proliferate next year?
Williams flow through sidepod
Mercedes mid wing
Renault sidepod valley
RB knife edge sidepod LE
RB/TR/Alpine wide sloping sidepods
Ferrari sidepods
Ferrari narrow roll hoop intake
McLaren t-tray bypass
Mercedes FW endplates
AM RW endplates
RB front pullrod
RB rear pushrod
RB split beam wing

Also, who will be most affected by the +15mm floor edge raise? And the new plank deformation rules.

[AR3-GP]

Where do people see the car designs heading in the next 4 years? Is Ferrari just going to keep building their bath tub car? Will Mercedes keep building the no pod? Will RB keep doing their ramp?

Despite the variability of design we have seen thus far, I'm not sure I see where the scope is to reinvent? The areas to play with are still quite limited and seem to be dictated by choice of sidepod. I can't see why Ferrari, RB, and Merc don't continue for the next 4 years with the same sidepod shape that they currently have? Anyone agree or disagree?

[vorticism]

Maybe Alpine extend their sidpod valley forward and end up with a MP4-26 or F92A type inlet. Ferrari as well could keep their sidepod width maximized by going with an F92A type outboard sidepod inlet.

The A522 has one of the most unique features on the grid currently imo, the inward facing engine cover louvers. This could be taken to an extreme combined with the 'sidepod as barge board' philosophy.

Since floor stays are now legal, teams could do more extreme versions of a double floor concept by hanging the floor off of spars hidden inside a wide floating engine cover. Basically, lift the RB sidepod up off the floor and hang the floor from it with stays. Merc could actually do this by extending their mid wing back as a wide thin fold in the engine cover, ending up with something that looks like this Honda concept from before 2009:

[continuum16]

Where do people see the car designs heading in the next 4 years? Is Ferrari just going to keep building their bath tub car? Will Mercedes keep building the no pod? Will RB keep doing their ramp?

Despite the variability of design we have seen thus far, I'm not sure I see where the scope is to reinvent? The areas to play with are still quite limited and seem to be dictated by choice of sidepod. I can't see why Ferrari, RB, and Merc don't continue for the next 4 years with the same sidepod shape that they currently have? Anyone agree or disagree?

I'd imagine by 2024, for example, the cars will probably converge quite a lot. If you think about 2017, the cars were fairly different to each other, and you could argue that by 2020 most teams had converged on some variation of the Ferrari mid-wing from 2017, combined with ultra-tight "jelly-mold" sidepods and to a lesser extent the slim Merc nose.

I think maybe for 2023 the front three will probably go with "evolved" versions of their current designs, where they can apply things they learned this year through porpoising, floor edge design, etc. The question will be whether teams like Merc and Ferrari can replicate the smoothness and larger ride-height insensitivity of the Red Bull using their current designs, because that is probably their biggest performance asset. If they don't see appreciable gains I think we will see a lot of cars with wide, heavily undercut sidepods with the ramp design after that. Williams and Aston have already gone that way, and McLaren appears to be as well. There must be a reason.

[Henk_v]

What's intersting is that there are two designs that were sortof "first time right"; Ferrari and RB. Both have been "inspiring" the upgrade routes for most of the grid.

For Ferrari, who has had a big incentive to push updates and would have done so mid season as the titel was in the balance, there are 3 options "left"
-They know how to make the concept better, but are restricted by packaging
-They have in mind a full New design for next year that is too different for an update
-They refine the current concept

For RB the story is different. Even if they know what the next step is, they've had little incentive to wisen-up any competitor. They've had a full season of really understanding their concept. One could even say their aero package has been simplified through the season. A strong indicator they exactly know what they are doing and are now beyond the stage of pure performance optimisation, but are at the next stage of optimising setup windows and making the aero more robust and forgiving.

I foresee a '22 RB "style" grid in '23 with RB running a heavily modified/new concept that will puzzle everyone by its apparent simplicity..