2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

[Stig14]

Mclaren need to fix their car, sure Lando is getting decent results, but it’s still a car with fundamental issues and will never be WDC/WCC material until they do.

You act like other cars don't have issues either. Both Ferrari and Red Bull drivers have complained about their cars at points during the year, despite their speed. Just because everyone isn't jumping up and down making a big deal of it, doesn't mean other drivers don't like certain characteristics of their cars as well.

The car isn't a title challenger, but it's not a terrible car. I don't think there is anything to indicate fundamental issues.

You'll quite easily find 5 teams who wish their car had these fundamental issues.

The car is fine. No more no less. Any perceived carry overs are likely how the new development rules are set into the cars.

Agreed on all points.

All very well said folks.

If it does transpire that McLaren drop Daniel for next year, it will be interesting to see if he's able to recapture form elsewhere (assuming he finds a drive) or whether he is simply a spent force. I fancy him being in a team with a teammate of Ocon's calibre will help to build his confidence again. It's all gone somewhat quiet on the driver merry-go-round though- presumably everything that could be speculated about has been now and we're all simply waiting for some more concrete news

[RS200E]

FFS, did you read what Lando said?



It’s clear, the car handling is not consistent from corner type to corner type and doesn’t respond that way a driver would expect a normal race car to behave.

You’re backing up your point by taking half a sentence.

The quote you have here, the full sentence is.

“ Last year, I would say that we had more of that, and then it's not an easy thing to adapt to that, like holding the brake in some sorts of corners”..

You’ve removed the words “last year” from the sentence, to make it seem like this car is what he’s talking about, when clearly it isn’t.

I was merely truncating the paragraph for brevities sake!

Anyway, Daniel has also confirmed there are many carry over traits:

https://apple.news/AxL0lWGbdQOOExcagYyJ5qw

He explained to Motorsport.com: “The regulations make the car feel different, but the DNA of the car is still very similar.

“Some of the things from last year which I struggled with, they are still in this car. It’s something I think we are starting to understand better what it is.

“Because obviously I tried to describe it, but to really understand, is it aero, is it is geometry, like… you know what I mean?
“We are starting to understand better what it is, and Lando also does complain about it. I think he’s just used to it.”

However, the Aussie’s attempts to get on top of the problems haven’t been helped by what he says are “new” problems emerging.

“Some of the, let’s call it struggles or difficulties, are a carry over – and then there might be a few new things where you’re like, damn, okay!” he explained.

“It kind of just comes down to the feel. It’s probably still hard to get a read, I guess, and to really build consistency in a race sometimes. My lap time variation might be quite big, and that’s normally like uncharacteristic.

“That kind of highlights where I’ll get caught off or something, I’m like, ‘oh ---, I didn’t expect the car to do that in that corner.’ It’s still just a little bit tricky to read I guess, going on a simple term.

“That’s where it can build some frustration, like, ‘why did I lock up then? I didn’t do anything to provoke that, so why the hell did that just happen!’ Just stuff like that.”

Mclaren need to fix their car, sure Lando is getting decent results, but it’s still a car with fundamental issues and will never be WDC/WCC material until they do.

You're like a broken record.

[RS200E]

There's no way of knowing how Dan would have faired if he stayed with Red Bull, however with those 8 dnfs (pretty much all not driver related) in 2018 there was an analysis done points adjusted where leading into the last 3 races he would have been pretty close to Max on points. Renault he finished strong in 2020. McLaren has been the only real struggle for him. He may get back to form in another team if he gets that chance, maybe not but to suggest he is no good anymore is a bit premature and disrespectful of his talents shown over a long period in F1 imo.

He would have been utterly destroyed like he is being destroyed now. Some recent red bull cars have also been difficult to drive which Max has been able to adapt to. It's likely Ricciardo would have not been able to adapt as Max does. All the evidence points towards Ricciardo being comparatively a midfield driver now. There's far too much talent out there to be 7th or 8th best driver.

Hamilton
Russell
Verstappen
Leclerc
Norris
Alonso
Sainz

All faster than Ricciardo, all more adaptable than Riccardo. Sainz only just.

Arguably on the same level as

Perez. And I'm giving Ricciardo the benefit of the doubt here.
Magnussen who is ahead of him in the standings IN A HAAS WITH 4 DNF.

Unknowns are Gasly who has apparently come along, Schumacher who might end up developing very well, Bottas who falls short in wheel to wheel battles and consistency but has an edge it in adaptability and qualy pace.

I'm sorry but this is clearly anti-Ricciardo bias. You have no way of knowing how he would have performed staying on at Red Bull (where he performed admirably against Max over 3 years when taking into account the 8 2018 DNFs as well) and are clearly just focusing in on two seasons in McLaren's uniquely quirky cars and ignoring any nuances of what has actually occured race by race. Sure it doesn't fully remove blame from Dan with the overall disappointing performances at McLaren but it does shed some light on some of the scoreboard deficit and disappointing results which is only fair to take into account, rather than blindly proclaiming the scoreboard as gospel which a 5 year old could do.

He has driven alot of different cars over the many years he has been in motor racing and adapted, particularly going from AT to RBR and beating Vettel convincingly and also recently in Renault in 2020 after his combined input in the car design direction. This has included outdriving the car and putting it higher than it should have been quite often and also winning races in cars on merit that were not a clear WCC capable car which is no mean feat. Many seem to have forgotten what he is capable of. Even Marko said after his unbelievable 2018 Monaco win

""It was a serious problem and Daniel managed it unbelievably, unbelievable,” Marko told Sky F1."

"“I don't think any other driver could have done it."

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/f1-auto ... GP-F1-news

Pretty high praise from Marko saying no other driver at the time, not Lewis, Max or Seb could have done what Dan did in that car to win Monaco. Just an example of what he can do when he was at one with the car. We will have to agree to disagree. I just hope he gets the chance to redeem himself in another team and recapture the form everyone knows he is capable of. We saw a glimpse of that as recently as last race with the double overtake on the Alpines.

Wrong. It's facts. And you are blind faith bias towards Riccardo. I like the guy a lot and expected him to do well, but 2 years of facts are the bottom line. 2 years = 2 world driver's championships by Mika Hakkinenen, 1 by Lewis Hamilton and 1 runner up by Lewis Hamilton on his debut year. The point is that 2 seasons is a long time and produces greatness or failure.

[McL-H]

Can we all just stop feeding the troll? It has become ridiculous and a complete spoil of the team topic. Either make a Daniel Ricciardo topic and discuss further there or just stop it. I haven’t read new arguments in many pages now surrounding this topic and I doubt there will be. No appetite here in having to scroll through any more pages of this nonsense.

[djos]

I think the perception of the McLaren car's behaviour is being exaggerated or misrepresented by a lot of people. At the end of the day, it's about extracting performance, which on driver is doing better than the other. We don't hear folks labelling the Red Bull difficult to drive, even though Gasly flopped in it, went back to STR and got a podium. Albon got smashed by Max, took a year out and looks the bees knees in a less capable car. Lando complains but gets performance, Carlos complained, got performance. Daniel gets performance every now and then, but the inconsistency is the issue. The points difference is an issue, the gap to Lando is an issue. You'd expect a driver of his experience to adapt and get something consistent out of the car, even if he's not as quick as Lando.

3 drivers, Carlos, Lando and Daniel have all described the McLaren cars as being “unusual” to drive to put it kindly.

The Mclaren is unpredictable and inconsistent in its feedback, I don’t think those are desirable traits when you are trying to drive on the edge of adhesion!

[djos]

Mclaren need to fix their car, sure Lando is getting decent results, but it’s still a car with fundamental issues and will never be WDC/WCC material until they do.

You act like other cars don't have issues either. Both Ferrari and Red Bull drivers have complained about their cars at points during the year, despite their speed. Just because everyone isn't jumping up and down making a big deal of it, doesn't mean other drivers don't like certain characteristics of their cars as well.

The car isn't a title challenger, but it's not a terrible car. I don't think there is anything to indicate fundamental issues.

You'll quite easily find 5 teams who wish their car had these fundamental issues.

The car is fine. No more no less. Any perceived carry overs are likely how the new development rules are set into the cars.

Agreed on all points.

Sure they have complained about various aspects, however none of them have described their cars as being inconsistent and unpredictable.

[djos]

Can we all just stop feeding the troll? It has become ridiculous and a complete spoil of the team topic. Either make a Daniel Ricciardo topic and discuss further there or just stop it. I haven’t read new arguments in many pages now surrounding this topic and I doubt there will be. No appetite here in having to scroll through any more pages of this nonsense.

In not trolling, you guys just don’t want to acknowledge that the McLaren cars have a fundamental issue in their inconsistent handling traits and feedback.

You watch what happens when Daniel ends up back at Alpine, Mark my words.

You can bet your life that if the Alpine’s exhibited Maclaren’esque traits that Nando would have torn strips off them. Instead he inherited cars that had benefited from Daniels feedback.

Drivers like Daniel don’t go from winning races and grabbing podiums in non-dominant cars to forgetting how to drive fast. He’s not Vettel who was only dominant because he had Adrian’s finely tuned blown diffuser to nail the car to the track.

And please don’t get me wrong, I think Lando is the real deal, If McLaren ever give him a decent car, he’ll be a WDC for sure, he’s talented AF!

[billamend]

In not trolling, you guys just don’t want to acknowledge that the McLaren cars have a fundamental issue in their inconsistent handling traits and feedback.

You watch what happens when Daniel ends up back at Alpine, Mark my words.

The Renault PU looks stronger than the Mercedes’ this year, imo they’ve done a great job. I hope Dan joins for next year and he and Ocon destroy Mclaren!

You can bet your life that if the Alpine’s exhibited Maclaren’esque traits that Nando would have torn strips off them. Instead he inherited cars that had benefited from Daniels feedback.

(you can use any tool to translate) https://motorsport.uol.com.br/f1/news/r ... s/4797488/

[djos]

Some drivers drive by feel, others drive by the data, Max is another driver that operates by feel, it’s why he’s so good in the wet. No 2 drivers have the same approach, that’s just life.

And btw, my PU post was from the Alpine topic, you reposting it here is trolling and inflammatory!

[billamend]

Some drivers drive by feel, others drive by the data, Max is another driver that operates by feel, it’s why he’s so good in the wet. No 2 drivers have the same approach, that’s just life.

Yet, Ricciardo called Max nerd by wanting to understand everything about the car?

[djos]

Some drivers drive by feel, others drive by the data, Max is another driver that operates by feel, it’s why he’s so good in the wet. No 2 drivers have the same approach, that’s just life.

Yet, Ricciardo called Max nerd by wanting to understand everything about the car?

Quote? Daniels and Max used to make jokes about each other all the time, what was the context of this comment?

[JPower]

Sure they have complained about various aspects, however none of them have described their cars as being inconsistent and unpredictable.

Sainz did imply the F1-75 was unpredictable especially during the beginning stages of the season. It was pretty apparent watching him drive as well. That car is the exact opposite of what he prefers in an F1 car. Corner entry instability and a front end that's quick to rotate.

He's had to adapt his driving style significantly and I never hear the amount the excuses for him as I've heard for Ricciardo this season.

[runningmanz]

He would have been utterly destroyed like he is being destroyed now. Some recent red bull cars have also been difficult to drive which Max has been able to adapt to. It's likely Ricciardo would have not been able to adapt as Max does. All the evidence points towards Ricciardo being comparatively a midfield driver now. There's far too much talent out there to be 7th or 8th best driver.

Hamilton
Russell
Verstappen
Leclerc
Norris
Alonso
Sainz

All faster than Ricciardo, all more adaptable than Riccardo. Sainz only just.

Arguably on the same level as

Perez. And I'm giving Ricciardo the benefit of the doubt here.
Magnussen who is ahead of him in the standings IN A HAAS WITH 4 DNF.

Unknowns are Gasly who has apparently come along, Schumacher who might end up developing very well, Bottas who falls short in wheel to wheel battles and consistency but has an edge it in adaptability and qualy pace.

I'm sorry but this is clearly anti-Ricciardo bias. You have no way of knowing how he would have performed staying on at Red Bull (where he performed admirably against Max over 3 years when taking into account the 8 2018 DNFs as well) and are clearly just focusing in on two seasons in McLaren's uniquely quirky cars and ignoring any nuances of what has actually occured race by race. Sure it doesn't fully remove blame from Dan with the overall disappointing performances at McLaren but it does shed some light on some of the scoreboard deficit and disappointing results which is only fair to take into account, rather than blindly proclaiming the scoreboard as gospel which a 5 year old could do.

He has driven alot of different cars over the many years he has been in motor racing and adapted, particularly going from AT to RBR and beating Vettel convincingly and also recently in Renault in 2020 after his combined input in the car design direction. This has included outdriving the car and putting it higher than it should have been quite often and also winning races in cars on merit that were not a clear WCC capable car which is no mean feat. Many seem to have forgotten what he is capable of. Even Marko said after his unbelievable 2018 Monaco win

""It was a serious problem and Daniel managed it unbelievably, unbelievable,” Marko told Sky F1."

"“I don't think any other driver could have done it."

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/f1-auto ... GP-F1-news

Pretty high praise from Marko saying no other driver at the time, not Lewis, Max or Seb could have done what Dan did in that car to win Monaco. Just an example of what he can do when he was at one with the car. We will have to agree to disagree. I just hope he gets the chance to redeem himself in another team and recapture the form everyone knows he is capable of. We saw a glimpse of that as recently as last race with the double overtake on the Alpines.

Wrong. It's facts. And you are blind faith bias towards Riccardo. I like the guy a lot and expected him to do well, but 2 years of facts are the bottom line. 2 years = 2 world driver's championships by Mika Hakkinenen, 1 by Lewis Hamilton and 1 runner up by Lewis Hamilton on his debut year. The point is that 2 seasons is a long time and produces greatness or failure.

Its clear your just another bandwagon hater, the backhanded compliments are not fooling anyone. You have no interest in taking into account any of his achievements or records against various other drivers and are only focused on two seasons in one team car philosophy. I'll reserve judgement about the question if he has lost his mojo if and when he goes to another team and seeing how he performs there. He has changed teams many times before and performed so the odds are better than even he can do it again imo.

[runningmanz]

Nice to see Dan relaxing and taking some time off from all the madness. Not slagging off anyone and keeping it classy can only help his case imo. Seems like he has some fun mates.



Interesting to see Pato though come out with these comments about Zak. Not happy.

"O’Ward revealed it was this that makes the whole contract drama between Piastri and Daniel Ricciardo “laughable”. The McLaren IndyCar driver reacted to the drama on social media as it unfolded, uploading an emoji of a popcorn box, suggesting he was watching with interest.

Speaking to ESPN, O’Ward said: “It's not good for me to have that illusion. It's a dream that's very far away, because although I'm racing at a very high level, it's still not enough to convince them.

“There are many things that come into play that are beyond me. I found it laughable. I saw it and I laughed. The same prize has been put in front of many other drivers by Brown.

“In the end, there is only one seat and not five.""

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/f1-auto ... i-contract

[JPower]

Interesting to see Pato though come out with these comments about Zak. Not happy.

"O’Ward revealed it was this that makes the whole contract drama between Piastri and Daniel Ricciardo “laughable”. The McLaren IndyCar driver reacted to the drama on social media as it unfolded, uploading an emoji of a popcorn box, suggesting he was watching with interest.

Speaking to ESPN, O’Ward said: “It's not good for me to have that illusion. It's a dream that's very far away, because although I'm racing at a very high level, it's still not enough to convince them.

“There are many things that come into play that are beyond me. I found it laughable. I saw it and I laughed. The same prize has been put in front of many other drivers by Brown.

“In the end, there is only one seat and not five.""

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/f1-auto ... i-contract

Try to find those comments on ESPN. The only site that has those quotes is GPBlog.com.