2022 Alpine F1 Team

[diffuser]

My point was he had a contract, RBR wanted him to sit, he sat.

I suspect RBR would have been more than happy to see Alex Albon find another drive in 2021 actually. They actively helped Albon to pursue the 2022 Williams, where Alpine made little effort to have Piastri secure the 2022 Williams.

As to the other points, yes it will be very interesting to see what the CRB says, do Alpine have a binding contract, a contract that has lapsed or even a non-binding Heads of Terms agreement (as they mentioned previously the November agreement to be only a Heads of Terms and not a contract)?

[Szafnauer ] said Piastri had signed a heads of terms agreement with Alpine in November last year which set out the path to a 2023 race debut.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/ ... lpine-boss

Yes he did NOT drive in F1 in 2022 but he did put in almost 4000 miles or KMs on F1 tracks with the 2021 Alpine. Plus a ton more simulation time.

[SmallSoldier]

My point was he had a contract, RBR wanted him to sit, he sat.

I suspect RBR would have been more than happy to see Alex Albon find another drive in 2021 actually. They actively helped Albon to pursue the 2022 Williams, where Alpine made little effort to have Piastri secure the 2022 Williams.

As to the other points, yes it will be very interesting to see what the CRB says, do Alpine have a binding contract, a contract that has lapsed or even a non-binding Heads of Terms agreement (as they mentioned previously the November agreement to be only a Heads of Terms and not a contract)?

[Szafnauer ] said Piastri had signed a heads of terms agreement with Alpine in November last year which set out the path to a 2023 race debut.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/ ... lpine-boss

Yes he did NOT drive in F1 in 2022 but he did put in almost 4000 miles or KMs on F1 tracks with the 2021 Alpine. Plus a ton more simulation time.

Isn’t that overstated though?… Yes, he has drove those Kms in 2021, but was it for him or was it for the Team (for correlation, information, testing)? He wasn’t the only driver doing it, therefore not necessarily for his improvement / benefit… Similar with the simulator time, which is to help the Team more than Piastri… He is probably logging hours as we speak to help with strategy for tomorrow’s race.

If the idea was to keep him competitive, another season in F2 or in a different series would have been more valuable than just turning in laps in an older generation car for his development.

[diffuser]

I suspect RBR would have been more than happy to see Alex Albon find another drive in 2021 actually. They actively helped Albon to pursue the 2022 Williams, where Alpine made little effort to have Piastri secure the 2022 Williams.

As to the other points, yes it will be very interesting to see what the CRB says, do Alpine have a binding contract, a contract that has lapsed or even a non-binding Heads of Terms agreement (as they mentioned previously the November agreement to be only a Heads of Terms and not a contract)?


https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/ ... lpine-boss

Yes he did NOT drive in F1 in 2022 but he did put in almost 4000 miles or KMs on F1 tracks with the 2021 Alpine. Plus a ton more simulation time.

Isn’t that overstated though?… Yes, he has drove those Kms in 2021, but was it for him or was it for the Team (for correlation, information, testing)? He wasn’t the only driver doing it, therefore not necessarily for his improvement / benefit… Similar with the simulator time, which is to help the Team more than Piastri… He is probably logging hours as we speak to help with strategy for tomorrow’s race.

If the idea was to keep him competitive, another season in F2 or in a different series would have been more valuable than just turning in laps in an older generation car for his development.

In your opinion. Not Alpine's

[diffuser]

My guess would be that Alonso, with knowledge of all the penalties and that he doesn't have to pass anyone, is running more DF. This gives him a slower car for quali but a faster racepace. Less tire wear in general and with a possibility of one less tire change.

The other option is that Ocon was faster, it has happened. It's difficult to judge, Ocon does know he's gonna need more top speed to pass from 16th.

[SmallSoldier]

Yes he did NOT drive in F1 in 2022 but he did put in almost 4000 miles or KMs on F1 tracks with the 2021 Alpine. Plus a ton more simulation time.

Isn’t that overstated though?… Yes, he has drove those Kms in 2021, but was it for him or was it for the Team (for correlation, information, testing)? He wasn’t the only driver doing it, therefore not necessarily for his improvement / benefit… Similar with the simulator time, which is to help the Team more than Piastri… He is probably logging hours as we speak to help with strategy for tomorrow’s race.

If the idea was to keep him competitive, another season in F2 or in a different series would have been more valuable than just turning in laps in an older generation car for his development.

In your opinion. Not Alpine's

Definitely

[Rockypeeters]

My guess would be that Alonso, with knowledge of all the penalties and that he doesn't have to pass anyone, is running more DF. This gives him a slower car for quali but a faster racepace. Less tire wear in general and with a possibility of one less tire change.

The other option is that Ocon was faster, it has happened. It's difficult to judge, Ocon does know he's gonna need more top speed to pass from 16th.

I heard Ocon got a new engine cover update which would explain why he was slightly faster.

[Alonsismo]

Ocon was onlynfaster than Alonso in S3, and this is a pure engine sector
So the fresh engine could be the difference

[ringo]

Now that this saga has aged, do people still despise Alpine for their position that Piastri has no loyalty?

Of course. If Alpine wanted to confirm Piastri in the car for 2023, they had every opportunity to do so in March, April or June. Yet, they did not even offered a confirmed 2024 Alpine race seat for Piastri, let alone a confirmed 2023 one.
Instead the 2024 Alpine race seat was assured to Alonso in Alonso's one plus one offer.

"We offered {Fernando] a one plus one deal. And we discussed with Fernando that: 'Look, if next year at this time you're performing at the same level, of course, we will take you."

Note that Fernando Alonso was offered the one plus one year Alpine deal, whereas Oscar Piastri was not offered the one plus one deal nor a two year deal. Piastri logically took a one plus one or two year McLaren deal instead, which is an eminently logical decision.

He was under contract, so it doesn't matter what was happening with Alonso.
Alpine was not obligated to confirm him in April or March, if he signed a deal just 4 months before in November. In March the season hasn't even started!
He did not have to be offered a deal if he just signed a 4 year deal in November.
Just like how Redbull have Gasly under contract and he simply has to honour it despite Marko's negative comments about him.
I hope you appreciate what I am saying.

[ringo]

If Piastri is as talented as his resume indicates, this episode will not matter for his future… Talent / Speed tramples almost anything in F1… If he is fast, most teams would want him in their team regardless of how this situation with Alpine pans out.

Was going to say the exact same. If he lives up to his billing then nobody is just going to discard off his services if they become available. It’s a ruthless business and only the result matters mostly

If Alonso was average his career probably would’ve ended ages ago. But he’s not, because teams know that he brings 100% regardless of everything else.

Alonso could have never got a top drive, even if he was free. Teams simply did not want his toxicity. So I would disagree that only speed mattered. Pascal Wheirlin was very talent and fast. He simply was not what teams were looking for.

[ringo]

Only thing that matters is what's in the contract. You think it was good for Albon's carreer to after a year at RedBull, being kicked to the side and then sit for another year ?

Albon got to drive in F1 straight out of F2, and got promoted to Red Bull Racing within six months, from which he scored multiple podiums. According to Alpine's plan, at the same point Piastri has not even driven FP1, when Albon was already promoted to RBR.

By the time Albon had multiple podiums and was then benched by RBR, Alpine would be looking to take Alonso's option and have Piastri take an option for a 2nd Williams year. Multiple podiums at the end of year 2 vs not even driving for the actual team yet at the end of year 2 according to Alpine's plan and every intention to renew Alonso for 2024 -- quite a big difference!

Then why did he sign a 3 year deal?
If Piastri was so good, he could have declined the 2024 contract from Alpine, and go hunting for a seat, as I am sure many seats would have been available for a super talent such as he.

[ringo]

Why are we behaving as if it is not possible for Ocon to be faster?
He has on many occasions been faster either in race or qualifying.

[JPower]

Alonso could have never got a top drive, even if he was free. Teams simply did not want his toxicity. So I would disagree that only speed mattered. Pascal Wheirlin was very talent and fast. He simply was not what teams were looking for.

I said nothing about a top drive.

[ringo]

Well yes of course, if a driver is fast he will get a seat. But that's not being disputed. Piastri turned down Alpine because of perceived level of performance, likewise he would have indirectly turned down Williams.
The smaller teams will take him, despite his disloyalty, but top teams will take issue with these things as I feel they can pick and choose what type of driver gets in their car.
Alonso, Hamilton, Shumacher I find are the standout talents in the last 25 years. It's very difficult to understand why Alonso does not have more championships. Arguably he was his own worst enemy in maintain good long term relationships amongst the teams. He is more like mercenary. I would put Max among those three as well in terms of standout talent, but after seeing some more of him as he ages, and maybe changes team. So far he needs to leave the bubble and face a top tier driver. But he is good for 4 or more championships quite easily.

[Alonsismo]

Well yes of course, if a driver is fast he will get a seat. But that's not being disputed. Piastri turned down Alpine because of perceived level of performance, likewise he would have indirectly turned down Williams.
The smaller teams will take him, despite his disloyalty, but top teams will take issue with these things as I feel they can pick and choose what type of driver gets in their car.
Alonso, Hamilton, Shumacher I find are the standout talents in the last 25 years. It's very difficult to understand why Alonso does not have more championships. Arguably he was his own worst enemy in maintain good long term relationships amongst the teams. He is more like mercenary. I would put Max among those three as well in terms of standout talent, but after seeing some more of him as he ages, and maybe changes team. So far he needs to leave the bubble and face a top tier driver. But he is good for 4 or more championships quite easily.

Alonso is 8 points down from being 5 times world champion.
The luck, is very important.

[JPower]

Piastri turned down Alpine because of perceived level of performance, likewise he would have indirectly turned down Williams.

I don't think that was the case at all for Alpine. For Williams, yes.