Merc to pull out of McLaren?

[nudger]

where is the content in that story?
theres nothing there.
its just the usual poor standard of journalism.
and where are you getting this idea that mercedes support mclaren racing with hundred millions a year?
and who do you think will buy their mclaren shares? they cannot put them on the open market, they are restrited by contractual obligations to give fair warning of a withdraw and for the buyer to be approved.

[PNSD]

Merc and Mclaren extend alot further than F1... Merc will not simply just 'pull out' of Mclaren. As with any business joining they will go through the good and the bad together. The last thing they both want to do is split.

What gave you that idea?

On the other hand here's a few facts:

- Merc want more control over their F1 team, but McLaren aren't likely to become what Sauber is for BMW.
- McLaren and Merc will work on their new supercars separately... there's competition to follow.
- Merc are building new partnership with Aston Martin.

PS: But I'm not saying that Merc is likely to pull out of McL soon (if F1 survives in its current incarnation).

New partnership with Aston? First ive heard of that, interesting!

Im not so sure on Merc wanting more involvment with Mclaren atm, I think it will be a good 3-4 years before we see more Merc involvment within the team. They're better off leaving all this bad news behind for a little. I still think both sides would prefer to keep things as they are, at least for the next few years.

[Rob W]

Who knows? They could still sell engines + KERS to McLaren, but by moving their 40% shareholding from McLaren to BGP, they could seriously be inline for a dominant future in F1.

Well, aside from the fact that Brawn might flat refuse to sell such a large chunk of his team to anyone who could potentially end up exerting influence over him.. they might not be in the market at all.

That aside, Mercedes' involvement in McLaren depended on mutual agreement of direction and aims and will likely tie them together far more than we know. For example, it may be stipulated (as any competent lawyer/businessperson could easily foresee) that upon dissolving of the relationship Mercedes cannot approach other teams for a set period. McLaren would have been well within their rights and certainly held the powerful position at the time of their joining partnership in shareholding terms.

And you only have to think back to a couple of rough years where Mercedes were the partner who were letting the side down through poor engine performance/reliability to show how much they're really committed to each other.

[modbaraban]

New partnership with Aston? First ive heard of that, interesting!

AFAIK the new Lagonda's to have a Merc engine.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=uk&q=as ... 0%BA&meta=

[outer_bongolia]

But Mercedes uses Mclaren to sell high end cars, and bait people in to their showrooms to look at lower end ones.

They can't do that with Brawn. It would be a purely racing arrangement, and as good as Brawn is right now, Mclaren is Mclaren, and have already proven themselves World Champion caliber.

Well, Merc ended its high end car development project w/ McLaren last year.

[Giblet]

It wasn't what it was supposed to be, but we know that (now I do anyways). Ignorant people with money don't always, and sometimes they get drawn into the dealership. That car got me in to look at it. A car can lose money on the individual sale and make the company money, like the NSX did for Honda. It sold VTEC to the masses.

I wasn't aware the SLR was such a flop. I thought it was a "supercar" GT like ride. But I also never really researched it. I just know it's physics in the sims make it a fast, 'floaty', and not very fun car to drive.

You see I was already learned this and conceded elsewhere in the thread.

Read whole thread before responding to early messages.

[gridwalker]

People wondered how long McLaren and Mercedes would stay together back at the beginning of their partnership : the 1995 McLaren was a dog of a car & McLaren were on their 4th engine supplier in as many years.

1992 - Honda leave F1.
1993 - McLaren run as a Cosworth customer team (running engines one spec behind the Benetton works team)
1994 - Works Peugeot deal.
1995 - McLaren Mercedes begin partnership.

The fiasco surrounding Nigel Mansell joining the team and finding the car too small to drive comfortably (necessitating an emergency B-Spec car) turned up the heat from the media, however Ron Dennis clearly stated that he wanted the partnership to be for the long haul. Since that time, the McLaren-Mercedes bond has grown much deeper and has been one of the most enduring relationships in F1 (certainly the longest engine supply deal in modern times, if you still consider McLaren & Mercedes as separate entities).

It'll take more than a bad season to convince Merc to jump ship.

[meves]

But Mercedes uses Mclaren to sell high end cars, and bait people in to their showrooms to look at lower end ones.

They can't do that with Brawn. It would be a purely racing arrangement, and as good as Brawn is right now, Mclaren is Mclaren, and have already proven themselves World Champion caliber.

Well, Merc ended its high end car development project w/ McLaren last year.

No it didn't a new car is just finishing development and will be released later this year, with a second model lower priced model following 18 months later. They are still very much a partnership.

[Giblet]

Keep in mind to there was a period where the chassis was considered top notch, but the Merc engines were grenading like mad as they were getting near 21,000.

Both sides of this partnership have had downs, but the ups have made up for it.

[gcdugas]

People wondered how long McLaren and Mercedes would stay together back at the beginning of their partnership : the 1995 McLaren was a dog of a car & McLaren were on their 4th engine supplier in as many years.

1992 - Honda leave F1.
1993 - McLaren run as a Cosworth customer team (running engines one spec behind the Benetton works team)
1994 - Works Peugeot deal.
1995 - McLaren Mercedes begin partnership.

The fiasco surrounding Nigel Mansell joining the team and finding the car too small to drive comfortably (necessitating an emergency B-Spec car) turned up the heat from the media, however Ron Dennis clearly stated that he wanted the partnership to be for the long haul. Since that time, the McLaren-Mercedes bond has grown much deeper and has been one of the most enduring relationships in F1 (certainly the longest engine supply deal in modern times, if you still consider McLaren & Mercedes as separate entities).

It'll take more than a bad season to convince Merc to jump ship.

I agree. The 2002 car MP4-17A was a relative turd (Ferrari's dominant F2002 won the WDC by Hungary and the WCC even earlier) and various efforts to get the MP4-18A off the ground flopped but simultaneous development of the 17D (having it genesis in the thoroughly defeated 17A) almost netted them a championship in 2003 due mainly to Michelin superiority which the FIA scuttled with their bogus pre-Monza front tire with ruling. In 2004 the MP4-19 repackaged all the radical ideas of the 18A and set the course for future gains in the MP4-20 which, in 2005, was the best chassis but lost the WDC mainly due to engine failures, a spectacular rear wing failure in Germany and Kimi's famous flat-spotted tire delaminating on the last lap. The partnership has reached lower lows than the present low. In 2005, 2007, 2008 they had the best chassis on the grid but netted only one championship due to their "equal driver" policy and reliability issues. There is no reason for Merc to think that Mac can't bounce back from this present low. They have all been there before and bounced back.

[WhiteBlue]

I was wondering if Zetsche would rue all the money they sunk into the that bottomless pit and all the bad publicity they got for it. If I had Merc shares I had long gone to an AGM to Stuttgart and made a big stink. Martin Whitmarsh and his collegues must say thank you prayers each night that those share holders are institutions and oil scheks mainly who do not care how their money is spent or may have been distracted by the even biger hole that was Chrysler.

[CHT]

Well, aside from the fact that Brawn might flat refuse to sell such a large chunk of his team to anyone who could potentially end up exerting influence over him.. they might not be in the market at all.

I believe Ross Brawn is smart enough to know that his team achievement this year is only possible because they have Honda funding, and it will be hard to maintain the same momentum if they cant secure enough sponsorship and financial support to compete with the big boys in development.

At the moment, BGP doesnt have a strong financial backer and Ross Brawn has no other side businesses (at least not that I am aware) which could benefit from his involvment in F1. Plus Ross Brawn himself is not a multi billionaire like Dietrich Mateschitz or Vijay Mallya who uses F1 as an advertising channel for their energy drinks, beer and airlines etc. And I am sure nobody will expect Ross to dip into his own pocket to fund BGP if they are in financial trouble.

Till now, I am still not sure if Ross Brawn is prepared to be a long term team owner and if he really enjoy the business side of F1.

Personally I would think that Ross Brawn should consider cashing in at the peak by having Merc as a stake holder, so that he and his team can continue to focus of racing.