2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[Hammerfist]

We've got the toughest track out of the way. But still, I was watching the live timing and Lewis was matching Leclerc's time on same age softs. So even on a track like this they are not too far from Ferrari on race pace. It's just that Verstappen fella, he is still way ahead and we have no answer for him anywhere. But in Singapore I think we can beat the Ferraris at least.
I will be very surprised to see the zero pod concept continue into next year. I believe it is the main reason behind the extra drag. Whenever Lewis pulled out of the slipstream he had no overspeed against the car he was passing even though he had DRS and he had to complete the move under braking. Shocking how slow and inefficient this car is.

[dfegan358]

I agree they have To change concept in my opinion. I think they will aswell.

[PlatinumZealot]

Season is getting weirder and weirder for Mercedes...

They are 3rd best car by quite a margin for the whole season. It got better through the year than how it started, but still a large gap. A few races where Ferrari dropped the ball made it look better for Mercedes. They have lacked straight line performance all year long. I don't think the drag part holds much water. Red Bull put a lot more wing for Monza and Mercedes went with far far less, yet were slower through the straights. They lack engine power.

The drag issue was demonstrated on this forum early on in the season by Vanja, lack out outwash from the bodywork causes front wheel wake to crash into the rear wheels much more than other teams designs.

Aston Martin was very draggy this race, and they have a RedBull body so it's not as simple as that. His simulations also said that Ferrari was the slippriest car.

[AR3-GP]

They are 3rd best car by quite a margin for the whole season. It got better through the year than how it started, but still a large gap. A few races where Ferrari dropped the ball made it look better for Mercedes. They have lacked straight line performance all year long. I don't think the drag part holds much water. Red Bull put a lot more wing for Monza and Mercedes went with far far less, yet were slower through the straights. They lack engine power.

The drag issue was demonstrated on this forum early on in the season by Vanja, lack out outwash from the bodywork causes front wheel wake to crash into the rear wheels much more than other teams designs.

Aston Martin was very draggy this race, and they have a RedBull body so it's not as simple as that. His simulations also said that Ferrari was the slippriest car.

It didn't say that. It said that it was potentially very efficient. The problem is Ferrari have had to raise their car a little bit which means they lose some of the downforce benefit which would make the car efficient for it's drag level.

Efficiency is dependent on two parameters. The downforce and the drag. From my understanding, Mercedes thought they had developed a very efficient car because the downforce numbers were prodigal in relation to the drag level. What they found when they hit the track was that they weren't going to get anywhere near those prodigal downforce numbers, but still carried all the drag associated with the concept making the car "inefficient".

[Big Tea]

George is within striking distance of ending up in second this year. That would be a turn up for the books

[SparkyAMG]

It has been an interesting season for George, he's not really put a foot wrong and has lived up to his "Mr Saturday" and "Mr Consistency" nicknames but that said, he's rarely if ever had the pace on Lewis come Sundays and has had the majority of the luck out of the two. Lewis by contrast has had a couple shockers, but did play the team game by doing a lot of experimentation earlier in the season.

It's looking more and more likely that George will end the season ahead though and that'll be what's recorded in the history books. He's no doubt an upgrade on Bottas too.

[ringo]

He is a better racer than Bottas for sue in attack and defense. Bottas i think has more qualifying pace, but that isn't enough to to be very good.
Hamilton I guess made mistakes that cost him to be ahead. But his detractors have more or less dissapeared after realizing he is faster than Russel in both Qualifying and race most of the time. I feel Russel will be faster in a year or less. It's inevitable.

[chrisc90]

He is a better racer than Bottas for sue in attack and defense. Bottas i think has more qualifying pace, but that isn't enough to to be very good.
Hamilton I guess made mistakes that cost him to be ahead. But his detractors have more or less dissapeared after realizing he is faster than Russel in both Qualifying and race most of the time. I feel Russel will be faster in a year or less. It's inevitable.

Russell had more race pace all race than Hamilton today, up until Lewis put the soft tyre on vs George on the hard.

[AR3-GP]

He is a better racer than Bottas for sue in attack and defense. Bottas i think has more qualifying pace, but that isn't enough to to be very good.
Hamilton I guess made mistakes that cost him to be ahead. But his detractors have more or less dissapeared after realizing he is faster than Russel in both Qualifying and race most of the time. I feel Russel will be faster in a year or less. It's inevitable.

Russell had more race pace all race than Hamilton today, up until Lewis put the soft tyre on vs George on the hard.

I'm all for using data to support race pace claims but Hamilton had a different rear wing, and also started in traffic whereas George ran the entire race in clean air.

We should use race pace to compare them, but I don't think this was a very good sample to use.

[chrisc90]

He is a better racer than Bottas for sue in attack and defense. Bottas i think has more qualifying pace, but that isn't enough to to be very good.
Hamilton I guess made mistakes that cost him to be ahead. But his detractors have more or less dissapeared after realizing he is faster than Russel in both Qualifying and race most of the time. I feel Russel will be faster in a year or less. It's inevitable.

Russell had more race pace all race than Hamilton today, up until Lewis put the soft tyre on vs George on the hard.

I'm all for using data to support race pace claims but Hamilton had a different rear wing, and also started in traffic whereas George ran the entire race in clean air.

We should use race pace to compare them, but I don't think this was a very good sample to use.

In which case any race where there was any difference in floor, wing we cant compare the 2 drivers?

[mendis]

Russell had more race pace all race than Hamilton today, up until Lewis put the soft tyre on vs George on the hard.

I'm all for using data to support race pace claims but Hamilton had a different rear wing, and also started in traffic whereas George ran the entire race in clean air.

We should use race pace to compare them, but I don't think this was a very good sample to use.

In which case any race where there was any difference in floor, wing we cant compare the 2 drivers?

Mercedes has spent the whole year experimenting on both cars in almost every race. I don't understand how the two drivers can be compared. They have used differing strategies that has yielded different results for both drivers. Unless they are competing at the front with exact same equipment, it's impossible to know where George stands. But he is definitely a far bigger upgrade than Bottas was, who is being frequently beaten by a rookie at Alfa. In a difficult W13, Bottas would be fighting with Latifi for sure.

[chrisc90]

I'm all for using data to support race pace claims but Hamilton had a different rear wing, and also started in traffic whereas George ran the entire race in clean air.

We should use race pace to compare them, but I don't think this was a very good sample to use.

In which case any race where there was any difference in floor, wing we cant compare the 2 drivers?

Mercedes has spent the whole year experimenting on both cars in almost every race. I don't understand how the two drivers can be compared. They have used differing strategies that has yielded different results for both drivers. Unless they are competing at the front with exact same equipment, it's impossible to know where George stands. But he is definitely a far bigger upgrade than Bottas was, who is being frequently beaten by a rookie at Alfa. In a difficult W13, Bottas would be fighting with Latifi for sure.

In which case, ringo, couldnt/shouldnt have used hamiltons race pace to make his detractors disappear.

But his detractors have more or less dissapeared after realizing he is faster than Russel in both Qualifying and race most of the time. I feel Russel will be faster in a year or less. It's inevitable

.


I think what is good to see though, is Mercedes have joined the place to fight with the top 2 teams. Granted they might still be half a second or so away on single lap pace, and 3/4 second on race pace to a very fast max in Italy this weekend; they are at least bringing a fight to the top 2 in some races. But finding that last 3/4 of a second to Max will be a huge feat. In Spa, Russell had much better race pace than both the Ferrari's and quicker in Zandvoort across the majority of the GP.

The fight is well and truly on for P2 in the championship.

[ringo]

I was not talking about this race specifically.
But Hamilton at the front is more of a threat than Russel.
He can make things happen up front.
Today both drivers were on different strategies. Hamilton was in the back on mediums?
Russel in the front on softs?

But generally both have been very good in the race. No rookie mistake issues.

But Hamilton does seem to get more out the stints as well as being able to pressure the ferraris more.

My fear is if Mercedes dont know exactly why redbull is so fast. If they dont they wont ve able to win next year.

[Just_a_fan]

He is a better racer than Bottas for sue in attack and defense. Bottas i think has more qualifying pace, but that isn't enough to to be very good.
Hamilton I guess made mistakes that cost him to be ahead. But his detractors have more or less dissapeared after realizing he is faster than Russel in both Qualifying and race most of the time. I feel Russel will be faster in a year or less. It's inevitable.

Russell had more race pace all race than Hamilton today, up until Lewis put the soft tyre on vs George on the hard.

George spent the entire race, bar a early few laps, in free air. Lewis fought his way through traffic.

[chrisc90]

I don’t know if we have seen enough of them both at the front in order to give a decent comparison. Naturally, and from past experience Lewis has been very good with his tyres… how that would compare to George with them both competing at the front with Ferrari/RB I don’t think we have seen enough races yet, and certainly not with Lewis this season given his experimenting at the start, and spa he retired on lap 1 unfortunately. Hungary was a decent one to look at but I don’t know how either merc driver did on their tyres and deg.

Even the current race pace difference is a HUGE climb for Mercedes to over turn. I can’t remember what the race pace graphic showed off last week but I’d dare say it’s over .500 away off race pace alone on average, if not nearer to .750.
Given the floor changes next year aswell, and merc looking to prefer to run their floor pretty low to the floor, it could be a mountain to climb for Mercedes. But that will be a new topic to discuss nearer next season.

I did have a look at the pole lap of Charles in Singapore 2019, and immediately noted the track looked very bouncy. I’ve no idea if the surface has been relaid with fresh tarmac to take out the bumps. I do believe Merc have sorted out a lot of their bouncing that we seen in Monaco and Baku where the bumps unsettled the car. But on a whole, for the grid, it will be interesting to see if the bouncing/porpoising returns with a seemingly more bumpy track, but that will be a talking point when the race thread comes out.