2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[Just_a_fan]

No. He let HAM through in Russia 2018.

Then last year this was Toto saying that team orders may come into play again
https://amp.theguardian.com/sport/2021/ ... rint-trial

And Hungary? Or didn't that happen.

Not sure what you’re trying to prove? I’m merely responding to your statements that are demonstrably false. I’m well aware that the Red Bull pit wall is “probably” more ruthless earlier on in a season than perhaps other teams. But you have to consider that initially FER was very much on the front foot points wise and on track performance wise. So I understand their decisive actions.

All I’m saying is that Merc or Ferrari would do the same thing. And the statements you made were just false wrt HAM and BOT. And I provided the evidence for you.

I’m no fan of team orders. They’re ugly but part of F1 up and down the pitlane.

I provided evidence that Mercedes doesn't favour Hamilton. Quite simple, really.

[Hammerfist]

And Hungary? Or didn't that happen.

Not sure what you’re trying to prove? I’m merely responding to your statements that are demonstrably false. I’m well aware that the Red Bull pit wall is “probably” more ruthless earlier on in a season than perhaps other teams. But you have to consider that initially FER was very much on the front foot points wise and on track performance wise. So I understand their decisive actions.

All I’m saying is that Merc or Ferrari would do the same thing. And the statements you made were just false wrt HAM and BOT. And I provided the evidence for you.

I’m no fan of team orders. They’re ugly but part of F1 up and down the pitlane.

I provided evidence that Mercedes doesn't favour Hamilton. Quite simple, really.

And there are many instances to prove that they don't. I could remember vividly COTA 2019 where Bottas's engineer is telling Bottas to attack Lewis on the radio. Bottas passed lewis twice that race and won it on a different strategy, and he was urged to do it by the team.

In Austria last year, even though it was clearly Lewis in the championship fight with max, Lewis was struggling with a damaged car, Bottas was allowed to pass Lewis on track, which led to lewis losing another position to Norris.

Those things I described above do not happen at RBR. Sergio is constantly reminded over the radio to not attack Max, to not fight Max, and even in AB 21' to defend Lewis hard for Max. He does not get the same upgrades that Max gets, and when he tries to run different setups it is a problem.

I don't know how anyone think the way RBR favors Max is comparable to any team on the grid. It just isnt. The last time I saw a team favor a driver that blatantly it was Alonso and Massa in 2012. Nothing else in the last 10 years has come close to what I've witnessed at RBR these last couple of years. Not saying it's wrong but to argue that it is the same as Mercedes or any other team is just not factual. Not even Sebastian had it this good at RBR.

[CHT]

Hamilton is after all the most decorated F1 celebrity on the grid right now while George is still just an F1 driver at Merc. If LH is given a car that has a chance to with the WDC, I am sure he will demand the entire team and George to support him in his quest for the 8th WDC, and there is no way Merc will refuse his request.

[ringo]

Hamilton is after all the most decorated F1 celebrity on the grid right now while George is still just an F1 driver at Merc. If LH is given a car that has a chance to with the WDC, I am sure he will demand the entire team and George to support him in his quest for the 8th WDC, and there is no way Merc will refuse his request.

He will not and has never. The best to to have done that was last year and he didnt.
He still wants to win fair and square.
I dont think he enjoys getting hand outs and it explains why he never pushes to have a #2 driver.
And good points raised in the post above, there are many instances where Lewis' teammates have chosen their own ambitions to the detriment of Hamilton's championship in the past, and that's why the dominant years were not as boring to watch as say the shumacher days or even with perez as #2.
Hamilton was always fighting to stay ahead. Be it Rosberg or Bottas. Their mission was to beat Hamilton and they made effort each year to improve. They were never told that they must support Hamilton. Heck there were many times last year Bottas chose to focus on his own race and let Max through to attack LH.

[selvam_e2002]

100% true.

[101FlyingDutchman]

[/quote]
He does not get the same upgrades that Max gets, and when he tries to run different setups it is a problem.
[/quote]

Evidence please?

[Cassius]

Not sure what you’re trying to prove? I’m merely responding to your statements that are demonstrably false. I’m well aware that the Red Bull pit wall is “probably” more ruthless earlier on in a season than perhaps other teams. But you have to consider that initially FER was very much on the front foot points wise and on track performance wise. So I understand their decisive actions.

All I’m saying is that Merc or Ferrari would do the same thing. And the statements you made were just false wrt HAM and BOT. And I provided the evidence for you.

I’m no fan of team orders. They’re ugly but part of F1 up and down the pitlane.

I provided evidence that Mercedes doesn't favour Hamilton. Quite simple, really.

In Austria last year, even though it was clearly Lewis in the championship fight with max, Lewis was struggling with a damaged car, Bottas was allowed to pass Lewis on track, which led to lewis losing another position to Norris.

Those things I described above do not happen at RBR. Sergio is constantly reminded over the radio to not attack Max, to not fight Max, and even in AB 21' to defend Lewis hard for Max. He does not get the same upgrades that Max gets, and when he tries to run different setups it is a problem.

What a load of BS.

Remember Silverstone this year? With your reasoning RB would have acted for Perez to finish behind Max.

Setup wise, Perez can run his own setups, and they also sometimes suggest to go back to Max if he is off the pace.

In terms of defending, remember Russia 2021? Bottas was asked to hold off Max. Bottas just cannot defend and Max has superior racing skills, so also here you are totally wrong.

Please take off your biased glasses before you post.

[Quantum]

I don't know how anyone think the way RBR favors Max is comparable to any team on the grid. It just isnt. The last time I saw a team favor a driver that blatantly it was Alonso and Massa in 2012. Nothing else in the last 10 years has come close to what I've witnessed at RBR these last couple of years. Not saying it's wrong but to argue that it is the same as Mercedes or any other team is just not factual. Not even Sebastian had it this good at RBR.

It's the Red Bull way of doing things.
From the Webber/Vettel days (Multi21 saga/New parts going to Vettel and not Webber/ Mark having off weekends which left him confused). To Max and Ric/Albon/Perez. To the point Ricciardo left with plenty of rumours suggesting he wasn't happy with the set up.

[ringo]

Perez is now trying out tyres. In Monza and Zandvoort. They put him on the hards to see ho well he goes then they use that to adjuat Max's strategy. Lets see if this happens again in the next race. Perez will no longer get strategies to help him win another race this year.
As for new parts, I dont have any evidence to say perez doesnt get any new parts. But his level of competitiveness has fallen. Its more like he isnt really being supported by the team to build his speed over the weekend with iterating the setup. It's just not happening for him. I dont think its parts. It's just support. Gasly suffered the same fate when he was at redbull.

[organic]

Perez is now trying out tyres. In Monza and Zandvoort. They put him on the hards to see ho well he goes then they use that to adjuat Max's strategy. Lets see if this happens again in the next race. Perez will no longer get strategies to help him win another race this year.
As for new parts, I dont have any evidence to say perez doesnt get any new parts. But his level of competitiveness has fallen. Its more like he isnt really being supported by the team to build his speed over the weekend with iterating the setup. It's just not happening for him. I dont think its parts. It's just support. Gasly suffered the same fate when he was at redbull.

Monza he flat spotted on lap 2 and they had to box due to vibrations. They wanted to go to end from there so they ran the hards. They had a slow puncture and had to put him on softs - without the slow puncture the hard tyre on lap 8 was the best strategy for him as it allowed him to undercut the Ricciardo train and would've finished p5 comfortably. Max was always going soft-medium and never near the hards; there was no need for tyre experimentation this weekend. In Zandvoort it's obvious that's what they were doing though

[chrisc90]

Yeah, I agree with organic. RB never experimented with tyres at Monza. Stupid for thinking so, if they wanted to experiment they would have started checo on hards and not pit about 3minutes into the race.

RB knew it was a 1 stop race, so needed to cover that off instead of a 2nd stop, which is exactly what Charles committed to when Ferrari pitted him on lap 7 and lost another 20 odd seconds to Max he stood absolutely no chance of gaining back. You need some serious car pace to pull a extra stop over your nearest competitor

[CHT]

Hamilton is after all the most decorated F1 celebrity on the grid right now while George is still just an F1 driver at Merc. If LH is given a car that has a chance to with the WDC, I am sure he will demand the entire team and George to support him in his quest for the 8th WDC, and there is no way Merc will refuse his request.

He will not and has never. The best to to have done that was last year and he didnt.
He still wants to win fair and square.
I dont think he enjoys getting hand outs and it explains why he never pushes to have a #2 driver.
And good points raised in the post above, there are many instances where Lewis' teammates have chosen their own ambitions to the detriment of Hamilton's championship in the past, and that's why the dominant years were not as boring to watch as say the shumacher days or even with perez as #2.
Hamilton was always fighting to stay ahead. Be it Rosberg or Bottas. Their mission was to beat Hamilton and they made effort each year to improve. They were never told that they must support Hamilton. Heck there were many times last year Bottas chose to focus on his own race and let Max through to attack LH.

LH's F1 career at Merc was seldom challenged by his teammate or any competitor, except perhaps for 2016 when Rosberg won the WDC. In 2016, I recall LH relationship with NR was also very tense and full of controversy regarding team order etc.

2014 Lewis Hamilton 384 Nico Rosberg 317
2015 Lewis Hamilton 381 Nico Rosberg 322
2016 Nico Rosberg 385 Lewis Hamilton 380
2017 Lewis Hamilton 365 Valtteri Bottas 305
2018 Lewis Hamilton 408 Valtteri Bottas 247
2019 Lewis Hamilton 413 Valtteri Bottas 326
2020 Lewis Hamilton 347 Valtteri Bottas 223
2021 Lewis Hamilton 387.5 Valtteri Bottas 226

who knows, maybe Merc's decision to replace Bottas is because he is unable to help LH by finishing 2nd.

[Zynerji]

Hamilton is after all the most decorated F1 celebrity on the grid right now while George is still just an F1 driver at Merc. If LH is given a car that has a chance to with the WDC, I am sure he will demand the entire team and George to support him in his quest for the 8th WDC, and there is no way Merc will refuse his request.

He will not and has never. The best to to have done that was last year and he didnt.
He still wants to win fair and square.
I dont think he enjoys getting hand outs and it explains why he never pushes to have a #2 driver.
And good points raised in the post above, there are many instances where Lewis' teammates have chosen their own ambitions to the detriment of Hamilton's championship in the past, and that's why the dominant years were not as boring to watch as say the shumacher days or even with perez as #2.
Hamilton was always fighting to stay ahead. Be it Rosberg or Bottas. Their mission was to beat Hamilton and they made effort each year to improve. They were never told that they must support Hamilton. Heck there were many times last year Bottas chose to focus on his own race and let Max through to attack LH.

LH's F1 career at Merc was seldom challenged by his teammate or any competitor, except perhaps for 2016 when Rosberg won the WDC. In 2016, I recall LH relationship with NR was also very tense and full of controversy regarding team order etc.

2014 Lewis Hamilton 384 Nico Rosberg 317
2015 Lewis Hamilton 381 Nico Rosberg 322
2016 Nico Rosberg 385 Lewis Hamilton 380
2017 Lewis Hamilton 365 Valtteri Bottas 305
2018 Lewis Hamilton 408 Valtteri Bottas 247
2019 Lewis Hamilton 413 Valtteri Bottas 326
2020 Lewis Hamilton 347 Valtteri Bottas 223
2021 Lewis Hamilton 387.5 Valtteri Bottas 226

who knows, maybe Merc's decision to replace Bottas is because he is unable to help LH by finishing 2nd.

We've all known for YEARS where George was headed eventually. I think they had to ditch Bottas simply because George was ripe to be picked by another team. (Lando-George at McLaren, anyone? )

[ringo]

He was not challenged but doesnt mean he had #2 drivers.

Alonso reigning champ, Heiki young fast talent, Button reigning champ, Nico Shumacher slayer, Bottas young fast talent, George young fast talent.

None were #2 material or journeymen. It's funny that even before the seaon started with all these drivers f1 fans would be curious about if LH would be beaten by these great hopes.
So far he has never recieved support by any of these guys. All drive to beat him and be #1 themselves. So far he has lost on points twice and could be thrice now, but still not outdriven or outclassed. But its clear none of these guys were contracted #2 or told to play a support role even though with 7 wdc and 16 years of driving LH deserved a #2.

[PlatinumZealot]

All i know is this: if Hamilton ever does win a race this year with this belly-sliding gator of a car he is truly the goat!

He has threatened in couple of races so far... Anything is possible.