Aston Martin wants hyper-car to be faster than F1 cars

[NoDivergence]

But you stated this philosophy is new. It's not.

If we´re going to discuss semantics, then ok, let´s discuss semantics

The Caparo is a mimic of a single seater, oper wheel car. Even if wheels are closed, the philosophy of the caparo is a road legal single seater open wheel car.

The Valkyrie otoh is a coupe style car, but with hugely advanced aerodynamics never seen before in any other coupe style car. Actually not even in single seater mimics like the Caparo. They´re completely different car concepts and philosophies.

Do you know any other coupe style car, with venturi tunnels similar to these... or venturi tunnels at all? No, there´s not anything similar to this:

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/IuGrss2BuFQ/maxresdefault.jpg

Do you know any other car, coupe style, with a front wing this similar to a F1 front wing with multi-element wing, vortex generators in front of the front wheels, etc.?. No there´s not anything similar to this:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... 7A5569.jpg


I could continue with the floor, vortex generators in front of the rear wheels, open underfloor... but you get the idea

Apart from this, if we´re discussing semantics, your statement of the Caparo superior DF/weight ratio is plain wrong, as it does not reach 2/1 ratio, not even with the track version wing and tires, while the Valkyrie Pro exceed that 2/1 ratio so it´s faster in the corners, and obviously much faster in the straights.


Anycase comparing the Caparo and Valkyrie is quite absurd, they´re completely different cars. I´d always go for the Caparo for the price/perfomance ratio, but the comment was about Valkyrie engineering, concept and philosophy, wich IMHO is unique, a master piece, and a new concept never seen before and I admire it for this, even if the Caparo is a bargain for its perfomance/price ratio.

I´ll never purchase any of the two anycase, but I can admire both for their strong points, even if both have several weak ones, but as a motorsport fan, I focus on the engineering work and strong points, and the Valkyrie has some spectacular an unique strong points, wich is great in this era of dozens of >1000hp hypercars wich all are basically the same, a monster engine/PU into a standard chasis.

The Valkyrie is different, and I applaud it

The Caparo is a two seater "coupe" just like the Valkyrie. Both have covered wheels. Both use ground effects. Both are so unreliable, they had/have mechanics following the car everywhere.

PS, they both are essentially road versions of the Allard J2X. This is so old conceptually that it is hilarious you think the philosophy is anything new. Coupe? Don't make me laugh

The Caparo has better downforce to weight than the Valkyrie road car. Do I really need to spell that out for you?

[Cold Fussion]

Looks like Mclaren decided to get in on the HyperCar game! The Solus GT has a naturally aspirated V10 engine with 829bhp.

https://apple.news/Ap7FYfw74Qh-X2jF7RX5Dpg

https://assets.bwbx.io/images/users/iq ... 200x-1.jpg

This doesn't seem very interesting IMO considering it's track only. What is the price of a full LMP2 campaign in WEC/IMSA for a gentlemen driver?

[Edax]

The Caparo is a two seater "coupe" just like the Valkyrie. Both have covered wheels. Both use ground effects. Both are so unreliable, they had/have mechanics following the car everywhere.

PS, they both are essentially road versions of the Allard J2X. This is so old conceptually that it is hilarious you think the philosophy is anything new. Coupe? Don't make me laugh

The Caparo has better downforce to weight than the Valkyrie road car. Do I really need to spell that out for you?

With all respect. I do agree with you that the concept is not new. The yamaha OX and the Lola F1 also come to mind.

But I do think it is a bit unfair to make the comparison. As said before the Valkyrie is a road legal car today. The Caparo although interesting is, if it would have been produced today, not road legal in most places.

For some reason legislators in most civilized countries recently have taken issue with cars that cut down pedestrians and spit them out as french fries out of the back. Similarly they have become adamant on the installation of airbags, ABS, ESC, crash protection and the like. And they want it all tested.

So the Caparo would need quite some kg’s of safety equipment, cabling and sensors, a full pedestrian safe hood a redesigned rear wing etc.

Over the years I have seen many of interesting concepts appear from sheds by very talented designers. And even more impressive performance. But that is only 10% of the work getting it to a commercially viable and legal product is the other 90%.

[Quantum]

For some reason legislators in most civilized countries recently have taken issue with cars that cut down pedestrians and spit them out as french fries out of the back. Similarly they have become adamant on the installation of airbags, ABS, ESC, crash protection and the like. And they want it all tested.

So the Caparo would need quite some kg’s of safety equipment, cabling and sensors, a full pedestrian safe hood a redesigned rear wing etc.

Over the years I have seen many of interesting concepts appear from sheds by very talented designers. And even more impressive performance. But that is only 10% of the work getting it to a commercially viable and legal product is the other 90%.

Makes an F1 engined roadcar sound implausible....

[Just_a_fan]

For some reason legislators in most civilized countries recently have taken issue with cars that cut down pedestrians and spit them out as french fries out of the back. Similarly they have become adamant on the installation of airbags, ABS, ESC, crash protection and the like. And they want it all tested.

So the Caparo would need quite some kg’s of safety equipment, cabling and sensors, a full pedestrian safe hood a redesigned rear wing etc.

Over the years I have seen many of interesting concepts appear from sheds by very talented designers. And even more impressive performance. But that is only 10% of the work getting it to a commercially viable and legal product is the other 90%.

Makes an F1 engined roadcar sound implausible....

There are often loopholes for very low volume cars which help to avoid some of the stuff that is expected of mass produced cars. As I understand it, the US has a "show or display" exemption that allows non-compliant cars to be imported but limited to 2500 miles a year. The McLaren Speedtail, for example, isn't fully road legal in the US because it doesn't have certain airbags and it wasn't worth McLaren engineering them in for such a limited number of cars. Likewise, the F1 wasn't legal in the US so a local company produced add-on bumpers, different lights, etc. to get it signed off. Owners, of course, took them off.

[SiLo]

https://barnfinds.com/wp-content/upload ... 30x390.jpg

What an abomination

[gruntguru]

https://barnfinds.com/wp-content/upload ... 30x390.jpg

What an abomination

Even the colour is putrid. (Washed out photo doesn't help.)

[Andres125sx]

But you stated this philosophy is new. It's not.

If we´re going to discuss semantics, then ok, let´s discuss semantics

The Caparo is a mimic of a single seater, oper wheel car. Even if wheels are closed, the philosophy of the caparo is a road legal single seater open wheel car.

The Valkyrie otoh is a coupe style car, but with hugely advanced aerodynamics never seen before in any other coupe style car. Actually not even in single seater mimics like the Caparo. They´re completely different car concepts and philosophies.

Do you know any other coupe style car, with venturi tunnels similar to these... or venturi tunnels at all? No, there´s not anything similar to this:

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/IuGrss2BuFQ/maxresdefault.jpg

Do you know any other car, coupe style, with a front wing this similar to a F1 front wing with multi-element wing, vortex generators in front of the front wheels, etc.?. No there´s not anything similar to this:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... 7A5569.jpg


I could continue with the floor, vortex generators in front of the rear wheels, open underfloor... but you get the idea

Apart from this, if we´re discussing semantics, your statement of the Caparo superior DF/weight ratio is plain wrong, as it does not reach 2/1 ratio, not even with the track version wing and tires, while the Valkyrie Pro exceed that 2/1 ratio so it´s faster in the corners, and obviously much faster in the straights.


Anycase comparing the Caparo and Valkyrie is quite absurd, they´re completely different cars. I´d always go for the Caparo for the price/perfomance ratio, but the comment was about Valkyrie engineering, concept and philosophy, wich IMHO is unique, a master piece, and a new concept never seen before and I admire it for this, even if the Caparo is a bargain for its perfomance/price ratio.

I´ll never purchase any of the two anycase, but I can admire both for their strong points, even if both have several weak ones, but as a motorsport fan, I focus on the engineering work and strong points, and the Valkyrie has some spectacular an unique strong points, wich is great in this era of dozens of >1000hp hypercars wich all are basically the same, a monster engine/PU into a standard chasis.

The Valkyrie is different, and I applaud it

The Caparo is a two seater "coupe" just like the Valkyrie.

What? The Caparo is a coupe now?

Both are so unreliable, they had/have mechanics following the car everywhere.

If the Caparo is that unreliable, that´s Caparo problem. But Vakyrie is equally unreliable? What´s the reason you assume the Valkyrie is not reliable when there´s no real world experience yet?

PS, they both are essentially road versions of the Allard J2X. This is so old conceptually that it is hilarious you think the philosophy is anything new.

So both the Caparo and Valkyrie, both mid engine, are road versions of a spider with the engine in the front?

Your insistence to compare uncomparable things is becoming quite absurd

The Caparo has better downforce to weight than the Valkyrie road car. Do I really need to spell that out for you?

Probably, at least while you compare the track version of the Caparo wich provides the maximum possible DF with specific wings and tires, with the road legal version of the Valkyrie

[Just_a_fan]

PS, they both are essentially road versions of the Allard J2X. This is so old conceptually that it is hilarious you think the philosophy is anything new.

So both the Caparo and Valkyrie, both mid engine, are road versions of a spider with the engine in the front?

Your insistence to compare uncomparable things is becoming quite absurd

It's probably better called the J2X-C but often the -C is dropped when it's referred to. Confusing, yes, but a moment on Google finds the answers.

[Andres125sx]

Well, that´s not a road legal car, and it failed to compete too due to the lack of perfomance, so not sure about what´s the fuss about this Allard, it was a competition car, as any other Group C car, or F2 car, but this didn´t even race so I can´t see any pioneering in this car

http://www.mulsannescorner.com/AllardJ2XRCE.pdf

[Just_a_fan]

I was just helping to point to the car he was referencing.

[Andres125sx]

I was just helping to point to the car he was referencing.

I know, and thanks to the clarification. My reply, even when I was quoting you, was intended as a reply to NoDivergence post

[humble sabot]

PS, they both are essentially road versions of the Allard J2X. This is so old conceptually that it is hilarious you think the philosophy is anything new.

So both the Caparo and Valkyrie, both mid engine, are road versions of a spider with the engine in the front?

Your insistence to compare uncomparable things is becoming quite absurd

http://www.mulsannescorner.com/Allard-PM01.jpg
http://www.mulsannescorner.com/Allard-PM02.jpg

It's probably better called the J2X-C but often the -C is dropped when it's referred to. Confusing, yes, but a moment on Google finds the answers.

The aero philosophy here is completely different. So is the structural. You are really reaching, and not even really looking at what you’re comparing

[Just_a_fan]

So both the Caparo and Valkyrie, both mid engine, are road versions of a spider with the engine in the front?

Your insistence to compare uncomparable things is becoming quite absurd

http://www.mulsannescorner.com/Allard-PM01.jpg
http://www.mulsannescorner.com/Allard-PM02.jpg

It's probably better called the J2X-C but often the -C is dropped when it's referred to. Confusing, yes, but a moment on Google finds the answers.

The aero philosophy here is completely different. So is the structural. You are really reaching, and not even really looking at what you’re comparing

I'm not reaching for anything, I was merely showing which car someone else was referencing.

[humble sabot]

Ya, sorry. Sometimes It’s hard to keep track of who’s posting.

The Allard project is actually pretty interesting and it’s worth reading the pages on it at Mulsanne’s Corner if it should interest anyone.

Could hardly be more different from the Valkyrie though