2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[morefirejules08]

Quite right! Assumption is the mother of all ---!
There were a number of teams pushing boundaries last year, in different areas. Wait for the published results of the investigation, then discuss…

You will never stop people discussing speculation, you would have more success emptying the oceans with a teacup

Just because it ‘fits’ a desired narrative doesn’t make it the truth. I could speculate endlessly on some topics (and do!), but try to question myself on logic, facts & intent before posting (which is why a TECHNICAL forum is appealing). Ideas and arguments that have enormous holes in either/both logic/fact or have intent to create a myth about some imagined wrong-doing will either shot down or shut down.

Wait for the facts, leave the speculation and rumour-mongering in the noise of Twitter.

Ok but practically everything you wrote has nothing to do with my point, but I’m happy you got that all off your chest

[Wouter]

[morefirejules08]

He seemed more concerned about where the “information” came from that the information itself.

[organic]

He seemed more concerned about where the “information” came from that the information itself.

Everyone should be concerned that this has leaked, surely (if it indeed is accurate)? The FIA being leaky means someone(s) are talking to people behind closed doors about ongoing processes (which is obviously not on)

[morefirejules08]

He seemed more concerned about where the “information” came from that the information itself.

Everyone should be concerned that this has leaked, surely (if it indeed is accurate)? The FIA being leaky means someone(s) are talking to people behind closed doors about ongoing processes (which is obviously not on)

Show me one large organisation that isn’t “leaky”. Anyway being more concerned about who spilled the beans than the actual beans themselves only raises suspicions

[BlueCheetah66]

The fact that Horner is going on the aggressive threatening legal action makes me think there is no actual overspending on their behalf, but then it would also be weird for both Mercedes and Ferrari to come out with heavy accusations without something to back it up rather than just based on what they have spent

[BlueCheetah66]

He seemed more concerned about where the “information” came from that the information itself.

Everyone should be concerned that this has leaked, surely (if it indeed is accurate)? The FIA being leaky means someone(s) are talking to people behind closed doors about ongoing processes (which is obviously not on)

Show me one large organisation that isn’t “leaky”. Anyway being more concerned about who spilled the beans than the actual beans themselves only raises suspicions

I wouldn't say he is completely caught up on who 'spilled the beans'. He has already stated that he sees the statements as defamatory which suggests he is more offended by the accusation than where it came from

[organic]

He seemed more concerned about where the “information” came from that the information itself.

Everyone should be concerned that this has leaked, surely (if it indeed is accurate)? The FIA being leaky means someone(s) are talking to people behind closed doors about ongoing processes (which is obviously not on)

Show me one large organisation that isn’t “leaky”. Anyway being more concerned about who spilled the beans than the actual beans themselves only raises suspicions

Since you have asked for an example: any football team that announces surprise signings. Every football journalist, fan and frankly anyone interested in the sport wants to know who the top clubs are signing/trying to sign and despite this, surprise announcements happen frequently. Not every large organisation is leaky. Besides, let's challenge another aspect of your statement: is the FIA really all that large, let alone the part of the FIA dealing with the financial investigations? I shouldn't image a huge number of people are privy to the information regarding the status of all of the teams' financial investigations. Given there were no more than 15 engineers working on the 2022 aero regs, the largest regulation change for decades, I shouldn't imagine it's an army of employees; could it still be considered large?

[mendis]

He seemed more concerned about where the “information” came from that the information itself.

Everyone should be concerned that this has leaked, surely (if it indeed is accurate)? The FIA being leaky means someone(s) are talking to people behind closed doors about ongoing processes (which is obviously not on)

Show me one large organisation that isn’t “leaky”. Anyway being more concerned about who spilled the beans than the actual beans themselves only raises suspicions

One could also read as Horner is ready to go with defamation suit if there is an evidence of someone starting the rumor? May be that's why he is keen to know?

[morefirejules08]

Everyone should be concerned that this has leaked, surely (if it indeed is accurate)? The FIA being leaky means someone(s) are talking to people behind closed doors about ongoing processes (which is obviously not on)

Show me one large organisation that isn’t “leaky”. Anyway being more concerned about who spilled the beans than the actual beans themselves only raises suspicions

One could also read as Horner is ready to go with defamation suit if there is an evidence of someone starting the rumor? May be that's why he is keen to know?

Or deflect from the real issue

[morefirejules08]

Everyone should be concerned that this has leaked, surely (if it indeed is accurate)? The FIA being leaky means someone(s) are talking to people behind closed doors about ongoing processes (which is obviously not on)

Show me one large organisation that isn’t “leaky”. Anyway being more concerned about who spilled the beans than the actual beans themselves only raises suspicions

Since you have asked for an example: any football team that announces surprise signings. Every football journalist, fan and frankly anyone interested in the sport wants to know who the top clubs are signing/trying to sign and despite this, surprise announcements happen frequently. Not every large organisation is leaky. Besides, let's challenge another aspect of your statement: is the FIA really all that large, let alone the part of the FIA dealing with the financial investigations? I shouldn't image a huge number of people are privy to the information regarding the status of all of the teams' financial investigations. Given there were no more than 15 engineers working on the 2022 aero regs, the largest regulation change for decades, I shouldn't imagine it's an army of employees; could it still be considered large?

Surprise signings in football are you must admit extremely rare particularly at the top level

[Big Tea]

This wasn’t the position of anyone, including staff, during the Ferrari fuel flow saga, during the “pink Mercedes” saga, the “green RB” saga, etc. What’s different now?

Also, staff of all sorts and all levels move between teams, as do consultants and agencies. If someone knows something or has a rumour they take it with them

And they are worthy of consideirng as facts and rougue public discourse.

I am saying that you can not ensure secrets stay 'in house' and no top team would take the risk deliberately.

[taperoo2k]

He seemed more concerned about where the “information” came from that the information itself.

Everyone should be concerned that this has leaked, surely (if it indeed is accurate)? The FIA being leaky means someone(s) are talking to people behind closed doors about ongoing processes (which is obviously not on)

You can't keep much secret in F1, especially when it comes to something as important as this. If Red Bull or another team have massively overspent as alleged, it undermines F1 and the FIA's attempts to attract new manufacturers and teams to the sport under "Look we have a budget cap everyone sticks to, so it's a fair playing field".

If Red Bull have broken the rules? Then they deserve to be punished as set out in the regulations (alongside any other teams that may have breached the rules). If not? Then they can sue whoever spread the rumours, a Libel Case in the UK would probably be the most likely option for Red Bull given how Libel Law is in the UK.

[astracrazy]

The fact that Horner is going on the aggressive threatening legal action makes me think there is no actual overspending on their behalf, but then it would also be weird for both Mercedes and Ferrari to come out with heavy accusations without something to back it up rather than just based on what they have spent

Like the heavy accusations we had from Toto and Mercedes that Red Bulls floor was illegal? We were told from them for weeks Red Bull were cheating and once the TD is enforced it would move Red Bull back. Ended up being total BS.

Toto is a talker and a bluffer. It is probably about time he watched what he says in public and without evidence he shouldn't be saying the things he has. If Red Bull come out ok, I don't blame them going after him legally.

[kediown]

https://nl.motorsport.com/f1/news/helmu ... /10377469/

Since Friday morning, Singapore has been about little more than the budget cap of 2021. At least two teams would have gone over the border, with the names Aston Martin and Red Bull Racing mentioned. According to reports, the former formation would be a minor violation and Red Bull a larger amount. Competitors led by Mercedes and Ferrari have called for sanctions, although it must be said that the real picture will only become clear next Wednesday. Then teams that have remained under the budget cap receive formal approval and teams that have gone over it are called to account.

Before that, the case has already put the relations in the paddock on edge. Toto Wolff and Mattia Binotto spoke about the matter for an hour on Friday and have also spoken out in the media afterwards. An exasperated Christian Horner hit back in the press conference on Saturday and Helmut Marko goes one step further: "To start with, I think it's more than strange how Toto Wolff came with all these numbers, he's already talking about a huge overshoot."

What is and what is not covered by the budget ceiling? Red Bull says it does not have those numbers itself yet. "The process is just like a tax audit. We have different companies [that come under Red Bull] and not all of them work for Formula 1. Some people have been transferred to another branch and you can't carry those costs, from our point of view in any case not." Those are interesting words, which fit with what Horner said on Friday about different interpretations of the rules. Marko alludes that Red Bull does not associate certain costs with F1 and has therefore not given up, while the FIA ​​looks at it differently. It also fits with the 'clarifications' that have come, according to Horner.

"We are now talking with the FIA ​​about various points. It mainly concerns the calculation of things. I cannot go into details now, but that is about, for example, which people you should or should not include. With our calculations we are below the limit of the budget cap. If these things work out against us, we will marginally exceed them," Marko continues, explains the Austrian to ORF. "We are first waiting to see what the outcome will be next week. If it is clearly to our disadvantage, then we will of course take steps."

Before that, Marko finds it more annoying that rivals can receive apparently leaked information about Red Bull's accounting. "This goes way beyond the usual political nagging in Formula 1. I have the question again: how do they get such information? I find that much more worrying." With the issue being fought out in the open, Marko believes Red Bull has already done a lot of damage. "The reputational damage is enormous. I mean: Abu Dhabi is long behind us, but that they apparently have not yet processed it is special."