Red Bull RB18

[dxpetrov]

AMUS is more and more becoming one of those cheap outlets that seek for sensation and clickbeit and has lost relevance with this sport IMO. I don't know whether it's because of the similar frustrations to what British media is going through in a way that their belowed national OEM is getting beaten by fizzy drinks company or something else, but it has become quite telling.

[AR3-GP]

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... ison-2022/

More about the RB's "trick" rear that causes excessive top speeds. The RB18 generates good load but very high top speeds.

Aston Martin is convinced that the outstanding top speed of the RB18 is not only due to its aerodynamic efficiency. "Look at the Red Bull's speed profile on the straights. They only really pick up speed in the second half." Charles Leclerc is also convinced: "It's not just about aerodynamics. There's something mechanical behind it."

Mercedes engineers noticed: "When stationary, the Red Bull has the highest ground clearance at the rear, and the lowest at high speeds."

The former top speed kings have refrained from taking their old trick into the ground effect era. "To do something like that with a conventional chassis takes up space and weight. We had neither one nor the other." Red Bull has wisely invested in this direction and is now getting the reward. While that may have contributed to the car's high weight at the start of the season, it's easier to shed weight than retrofit the chassis. And when you lose weight, you automatically get more lap time.

Some rear facing onboards would be useful

If Merc and Ferrari can copy this trick and RB's top speed advantage is lost next year, they need to start improving on other areas like peak DF etc to stay competitive. Could be an exciting season next year with all 3 top teams really close.

In hopes of keeping the thread on topic, I will say that the rumored technical solution of the RB18 is not a new idea. It's one that teams have been implementing to varying levels of success for years. Previous iterations of the RB under unlimited budget never featured a solution with such effectiveness. It points to the phenomena being very complex as in that it depends not only on the suspension mechanism but also on the aero concept. A different car's diffuser may not stall at low ride height or the correct rideheight without making a mess of the cornering. A different car may be operating with a stalled diffuser and not shed as much drag as another due to the aero concept and what flows are being broken down due to the diffuser stall.

[Bill]

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... ison-2022/

More about the RB's "trick" rear that causes excessive top speeds. The RB18 generates good load but very high top speeds.





Some rear facing onboards would be useful

If Merc and Ferrari can copy this trick and RB's top speed advantage is lost next year, they need to start improving on other areas like peak DF etc to stay competitive. Could be an exciting season next year with all 3 top teams really close.

In hopes of keeping the thread on topic, I will say that the rumored technical solution of the RB18 is not a new idea. It's one that teams have been implementing to varying levels of success for years. Previous iterations of the RB under
unlimited budget never featured a solution with such effectiveness. It points to the phenomena being very complex as in that it depends not only on the suspension mechanism but also on the aero concept. A different car's diffuser may not stall at low ride height or the correct rideheight without making a mess of the cornering. A different car may be operating with a stalled diffuser and not shed as much drag as another due to the aero concept and what flows are being broken down due to the diffuser stall.

redbull straight line speed was great last year that's why they won austria ,baku ,france ,silverstone spring race ,mexico,monza spri so the pu performed on power tracks nothing new there.it forced merc to change pu often to keep up.rbr have been running high rake cars since 2009 so nothing new there either.

[AR3-GP]

If Merc and Ferrari can copy this trick and RB's top speed advantage is lost next year, they need to start improving on other areas like peak DF etc to stay competitive. Could be an exciting season next year with all 3 top teams really close.

In hopes of keeping the thread on topic, I will say that the rumored technical solution of the RB18 is not a new idea. It's one that teams have been implementing to varying levels of success for years. Previous iterations of the RB under
unlimited budget never featured a solution with such effectiveness. It points to the phenomena being very complex as in that it depends not only on the suspension mechanism but also on the aero concept. A different car's diffuser may not stall at low ride height or the correct rideheight without making a mess of the cornering. A different car may be operating with a stalled diffuser and not shed as much drag as another due to the aero concept and what flows are being broken down due to the diffuser stall.

redbull straight line speed was great last year that's why they won austria ,baku ,france ,silverstone spring race ,mexico,monza spri so the pu performed on power tracks nothing new there.it forced merc to change pu often to keep up.rbr have been running high rake cars since 2009 so nothing new there either.

I'm only referring to the straightline performance of the 2022 RB18. It doesn't have anything to do with past seasons because the technical solutions of previous seasons are obselete given the new aero (ground effect) and engine regs (different fuel)

[Andi76]

AMUS is more and more becoming one of those cheap outlets that seek for sensation and clickbeit and has lost relevance with this sport IMO. I don't know whether it's because of the similar frustrations to what British media is going through in a way that their belowed national OEM is getting beaten by fizzy drinks company or something else, but it has become quite telling.

I don't think it has anything to do with cheap outlet...and Haupt and Schmidt are probably two of the most reliable F1 journalists. But anyway - Sebastian Vettel and other drivers now have noticed the Red Bull lowering its rear at high speed. It was also said by several engineers. Thats where this information is coming from. And when drivers and engineers in the paddock are saying that, its usually true.

[AR3-GP]

AMUS is more and more becoming one of those cheap outlets that seek for sensation and clickbeit and has lost relevance with this sport IMO. I don't know whether it's because of the similar frustrations to what British media is going through in a way that their belowed national OEM is getting beaten by fizzy drinks company or something else, but it has become quite telling.

I don't think it has anything to do with cheap outlet...Sebastian Vettel and other drivers who have noticed the Red Bull lowering its rear at high speed. It was also said by several engineers. And when drivers and engineers in the paddock are saying that, its usually true.

The problem with this very basic observation is that all cars drop in the rear at high speed because the rear downforce increases with speed. If you think drivers can see a car lowering it's rear with all the bumping in the car, i have a bridge to sell you .

That doesn't mean they are incorrect, as I do think RB does things at high speed. However, to use the driver's eye observation to support it is precarious at best. I rather think just looking at the speed traces in the telemetry says all you need to know. DRS open? RB go zoom zoom.

[Stu]

AMUS is more and more becoming one of those cheap outlets that seek for sensation and clickbeit and has lost relevance with this sport IMO. I don't know whether it's because of the similar frustrations to what British media is going through in a way that their belowed national OEM is getting beaten by fizzy drinks company or something else, but it has become quite telling.

I don't think it has anything to do with cheap outlet...and Haupt and Schmidt are probably two of the most reliable F1 journalists. But anyway - Sebastian Vettel and other drivers now have noticed the Red Bull lowering its rear at high speed. It was also said by several engineers. Thats where this information is coming from. And when drivers and engineers in the paddock are saying that, its usually true.

The RedBull rear suspension seems to be operated differently to others, concentrating more of eliminating roll, coupled (no pun intended) with more bump/heave travel, static rake (and therefore less spring rate), it stands to reason that the rear of the car will move more up/down.
At the same time a driver-eye view of it is not evidential, they cannot see what is occurring on there own cars in similar circumstances.

[chrisc90]

I had a quick flick back through F1TV for the faster tracks for a rear onboard and found Perez in Spa and you got a bit of Max in Baku.

The RB does seem to drop a little bit on the suspension when the speeds get higher, interestingly it was more in spa than Baku. Unfortunately, couldn't see anything with DRS active as the shots switched to the front camera.

There is a brief moment of Perez with DRS open in Spain at 1:05.50 where he overtakes latifi, and again at 1:20.25 when he's behind Max. Nothing of any real relevance to see. Probably due to it being on the shorter DRS straights than the longer ones.

[Andi76]

AMUS is more and more becoming one of those cheap outlets that seek for sensation and clickbeit and has lost relevance with this sport IMO. I don't know whether it's because of the similar frustrations to what British media is going through in a way that their belowed national OEM is getting beaten by fizzy drinks company or something else, but it has become quite telling.

I don't think it has anything to do with cheap outlet...Sebastian Vettel and other drivers who have noticed the Red Bull lowering its rear at high speed. It was also said by several engineers. And when drivers and engineers in the paddock are saying that, its usually true.

The problem with this very basic observation is that all cars drop in the rear at high speed because the rear downforce increases with speed. If you think drivers can see a car lowering it's rear with all the bumping in the car, i have a bridge to sell you .

That doesn't mean they are incorrect, as I do think RB does things at high speed. However, to use the driver's eye observation to support it is precarious at best. I rather think just looking at the speed traces in the telemetry says all you need to know. DRS open? RB go zoom zoom.

Even if i admit that it is probably almost impossible to see for a driver, i remember drivers telling things about the behaviour of a competitors car immediately after a race that you would never expect. Michael Schumacher is probably the best example. But anyway - engineers are telling the same, so i think its highly likely there is some truth in it.

[SmallSoldier]

AMUS is more and more becoming one of those cheap outlets that seek for sensation and clickbeit and has lost relevance with this sport IMO. I don't know whether it's because of the similar frustrations to what British media is going through in a way that their belowed national OEM is getting beaten by fizzy drinks company or something else, but it has become quite telling.

I don't think it has anything to do with cheap outlet...and Haupt and Schmidt are probably two of the most reliable F1 journalists. But anyway - Sebastian Vettel and other drivers now have noticed the Red Bull lowering its rear at high speed. It was also said by several engineers. Thats where this information is coming from. And when drivers and engineers in the paddock are saying that, its usually true.

The RedBull rear suspension seems to be operated differently to others, concentrating more of eliminating roll, coupled (no pun intended) with more bump/heave travel, static rake (and therefore less spring rate), it stands to reason that the rear of the car will move more up/down.
At the same time a driver-eye view of it is not evidential, they cannot see what is occurring on there own cars in similar circumstances.

But maybe they can make a comparison between different cars? I mean, they probably don’t what their own car is doing, but been behind others will give them a good idea of different behaviors in other team’s cars

[PlatinumZealot]

Single element beamwing surprises me but they have quite a big wing, same floor configuration as Singapore with the shortened/modified floor edge blade. Still haven't got a good look at the floor fences which have been revised. Wing level same as Zandvoort.

The side pod undercut is looking more like a double floor style sidepod now... but can't really say 100%

[GrizzleBoy]

Single element beamwing surprises me but they have quite a big wing, same floor configuration as Singapore with the shortened/modified floor edge blade. Still haven't got a good look at the floor fences which have been revised. Wing level same as Zandvoort.

The side pod undercut is looking more like a double floor style sidepod now... but can't really say 100%

First thing I thought when I saw the side-on pic above is that it was somehow reminding me of Aston Martins original 2022 design.

I think it's just the sheer volume of exposed floor at the front giving that impression.

[Just_a_fan]

At the same time a driver-eye view of it is not evidential, they cannot see what is occurring on there own cars in similar circumstances.

The drivers notice things on other cars, they discuss them with their engineers, the engineers will then look at it further and feeds it back in to the team / driver. The drivers that are commenting on it will know that it is different behaviour to their own car because they'll have discussed it with the team as part of the usual briefing/debriefing that goes on.

[atanatizante]

It`s a rumour around the paddock that RB18 is sporting now what W12 rear suspension did on the straights last year and a known former Merc aerodynamicist explain how can be done this year with the new regs regarding suspension and stuff:

[atanatizante]

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... ison-2022/

More about the RB's "trick" rear that causes excessive top speeds. The RB18 generates good load but very high top speeds.





Some rear facing onboards would be useful

If Merc and Ferrari can copy this trick and RB's top speed advantage is lost next year, they need to start improving on other areas like peak DF etc to stay competitive. Could be an exciting season next year with all 3 top teams really close.

In hopes of keeping the thread on topic, I will say that the rumored technical solution of the RB18 is not a new idea. It's one that teams have been implementing to varying levels of success for years. Previous iterations of the RB under unlimited budget never featured a solution with such effectiveness. It points to the phenomena being very complex as in that it depends not only on the suspension mechanism but also on the aero concept. A different car's diffuser may not stall at low ride height or the correct rideheight without making a mess of the cornering. A different car may be operating with a stalled diffuser and not shed as much drag as another due to the aero concept and what flows are being broken down due to the diffuser stall.

...



In this video, Kyle said it's not desirable to stall the diffuser on these 2022 cars ...