2021 Cost Cap Rumours and Speculation

[mendis]

I know 1 thing and this is the budget cap came for a reason which is to help the small teams to catch up the front runner's.
Now i see a winning team to be above the budget cap and that team this year continuously was bringing the biggest updates from all the rest. From what i read from what the other teams say, even half a mil can give you 0.2-03 per lap.
So what now? How this can equalise the gains RB got off this infringement to the other teams? Or we will have 4 more years of RB dominance?

The cost cap actually literally stops teams being able to catch up, even if they have the money or not, so overspending becomes even more of an important issue.

This would set a precedent for "acceptable minor breaches", unless FIA fixes the grey area. It would give ammunitions for teams to spend in excess and take a financial penalty, but gain some competitive performance.

[selvam_e2002]

Next year all team did minor breach so only fine no penalty. Keep it up FIA and Liberty. It is a bad example set by RB and teaching other team to use this method to develop the car.

Next 3 years all RB win and 2026 -- who is next fia puppet?

[Quantum]

Exactly, but we can presume Wolff had his eyes and people go through Red Bull's submission. His insistence on Red Bull being in breach is enough evidence that he played a part in the decision, since Red Bull insist that what they submitted was under the cost cap, but magically through the FIA and with Wolff's influence, that number somehow becomes over the cost cap. Wolff's access to insider information from the FIA is concerning.

Or as i suspect, Horner was lying through his teeth, and some people just wish to blindly believe whatever he says!

Lol if you get the chance go rewatch the interviews Horner gave again; it was pretty obvious he was telling stories.

This video aged like milk in the hot summers sun for Horner.
To think he actually threatened to sue Toto etc for defamation.
It's pretty callous.

[mendis]

People constantly, move from team to team, and the cost cap ensured that over the last 2 or 3 years that number has skyrocketed. Could be something as simple as an unhappy former RBR employee, spilling the beans to any one of a few thousand people in the paddock. Then just like in any high school the information quickly circulates to anyone interested in hearing it!

Or it could just be that all nine other teams know exactly what it cost to run a Formula One team. I know how much upgrades cost, and transportation costs, and catering costs, and everything else.

Yep, actually before the rumor came out, Binotto was questioning Redbull's massive upgrades earlier this year.
The FIA really needs to stamp down and issue a hefty championship penalty even if this is a "minor breach". If they don't, then noone in their right mind on the paddock is going to respect these rules.

Remember rules are rules. When Max was taken out in Silverstone, the penalty was enforced based on rules, not the impact for the competitor. Rules can't be changed on the fly to punish someone for an offence covered in rules.

[Tvetovnato]

Your conspiracy theories are usually amusing, but now they are off the charts completely. What about Binotto in all of this? He must just be Wolff’s puppet right? Wolff must have some leverage on him, some incriminating photos, otherwise Binotto would not have publicly gone out in the exact same manner as Wolff about all of this… yeah.. I see what’s going on… we all do…

Wolff could have easily tipped Binotto and convinced him to say that a 2021 breach in spending has an affect on 2022 car performance. I find that real rich considering how much spend Mercedes enjoyed up until the cost cap and Ferrari's defacto monetary bonus for just being in the championship, but hey, rules are rules. Nothing in the regulations say that overspend in the 2021 season benefit the 2022 car gains/performance from that. That is just the haters trying to discredit the achievements of Max last and this season.

So Binotto cannot figure out himself that overspending gives you a performance advantage? I know Ferrari does not always make the smartest moves, but this is taking it… a bit far.

And what has Mercedes and Ferrari’s spending BEFORE the cost cap have to do with this?

Overspending in 2021 gives an impact on the performance in 2021, and as a consequence, 2022 as well. But you know this already, as everyone else does, it’s simple math. You don’t have to be a ”hater” to be unhappy about this. Any real sports fan would and should be unhappy about this.

[Mandrake]

Having worked in controlling for long I really hope there will be some details given over the next weeks. I can recall so many cases where external consultancy firms have taken figures and just extrapolated them without looking at things properly. In a way I think RedBull are too clever to really breach the cost cap.

[Sofa King]

Ross Brawn was pretty clear, that if you breach the financial regulations “you will be losing your championship.” Spending under a cap is fungible and it seems Red Bull pushed it beyond the limit resulting in an unfair competitive advantage

[mendis]

Or as i suspect, Horner was lying through his teeth, and some people just wish to blindly believe whatever he says!

Lol if you get the chance go rewatch the interviews Horner gave again; it was pretty obvious he was telling stories.

This video aged like milk in the hot summers sun for Horner.
To think he actually threatened to sue Toto etc for defamation.
It's pretty callous.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2f0Vmsf ... nel=F1Ksav

He was well within his rights at that point to say that and Red Bull continues to maintain the stance that they didn't breach the cost cap. Unless FIA says it, anyone that levels such allegations without any evidence are liable for defamation. Now that FIA has mentioned it, not just Toto, anyone on the street can say what they want on the basis of FIA statement.

[morefirejules08]

I can’t believe this RB statement at all. Wolff and Binotto have been vocal enough that they overspent, how can RB be so ‘surprised’?

Because it was RB who submitted the documents to FIA, not Wolff and Binotto.

Exactly, but we can presume Wolff had his eyes and people go through Red Bull's submission. His insistence on Red Bull being in breach is enough evidence that he played a part in the decision, since Red Bull insist that what they submitted was under the cost cap, but magically through the FIA and with Wolff's influence, that number somehow becomes over the cost cap. Wolff's access to insider information from the FIA is concerning.

So just to be clear, it’s Toto Wolffs fault Redbull went over the cost cap? I mean that’s one hell of a hill to die on.

[mendis]

Ross Brawn was pretty clear, that if you breach the financial regulations “you will be losing your championship.” Spending under a cap is fungible and it seems Red Bull pushed it beyond the limit resulting in an unfair competitive advantage

He was part of the rule making, representing the Liberty and the rules are clear about the penalties for "minor" and "major" breaches.

[dans79]

You fail to understand what I'm pointing out here. The submission Red Bull made in March were under the cost-cap, since then the FIA declared that there was a procedural breach and overspend. The persons moving from team to team would have NO knowledge of what the FIA is reviewing and how they are reviewing it. You're just trying to downplay the fact that Wolff has inside information from the FIA, be it about overspend or consideration to allow a 2nd stay that is still illegal according to the technical regulations. Wolff leveraged that information to try and rally Red Bull's direct competitors and went on a defame campaign in the media. Get my drift?

No, I think you fail to see what i'm saying. If someone who left RBR knew about the breach beforehand, they might be the very reason the FIA found the procedural breach and overspend! in other words a whistleblower, and generally they are unhappy ex employees!

[Quantum]

He was well within his rights at that point to say that and Red Bull continues to maintain the stance that they didn't breach the cost cap. Unless FIA says it, anyone that levels such allegations without any evidence are liable for defamation. Now that FIA has mentioned it, not just Toto, anyone on the street can say what they want on the basis of FIA statement.

And you don't think that makes Christian Horner a liar?

[mendis]

He was well within his rights at that point to say that and Red Bull continues to maintain the stance that they didn't breach the cost cap. Unless FIA says it, anyone that levels such allegations without any evidence are liable for defamation. Now that FIA has mentioned it, not just Toto, anyone on the street can say what they want on the basis of FIA statement.

And you don't think that makes Christian Horner a liar?

How?

[ispano6]

How is it rich? The spent within the rules when they had that money, then the rules changed and they still spent within the rules. Only one team didn't and they would have almost certainly benefitted from it. Benefits from outside of the rules should be punished, as Horner has consistently called for, so why is it that if you apply Horners logic against Horner, then it is "haters"? Seems to be "fair players" to me.

Red Bull say they submitted their books and it was under the cost-cap. So something happened during the review process that converted their numbers into being above the cost cap. You do agree to this point, do you not?
So what forces and pressures, method of accounting, or calculation of spend, would have resulted in this discrepancy?

Other teams say they had to move personnel to other projects or took a step back from the forefront, or salary cap their workers, maybe even some worked for reduced wage with some added bonus or salary back pay. No one said they had to reduce spend on performance, most if not all teams reduced staff or salary.

Red Bull say this is how much it cost them, and an outside entity is saying "No it couldn't have been, that's not possible." So the FIA, since they aren't a F1 operation, might have looked to other team's spend or method of calculation and applied some sort of adjustment. Now Wolff is determined on having an influence on the punishment for the breach, obviously with the intent to benefit Mercedes.

[Alakshendra]

Just got one question, so now its proven its just a minor breach so what will be the punishment that RB will be looking at? Less tunnel time etc or just some financial penalty.