2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[selvam_e2002]

people did the same comparisons with Vettel and MC and most of them told that Vettel is next MC but he is not. Legend is a Legend. It is not good to compare with Legend. The legend should be raised again. We will come to know after few years that, IS Max really a Legend....??? It is a big question mark.

In your eyes, Max already is a legend in mine. What he has already achieved and the level of control and skill he has is works of legends.

see I am not against your thought. we had similar situation with Vettel when he was with RB. once he come out he is no where. Now most of the people forgot that he is 4 time WDC.

I am afraid this could happen to Max as well. This is my thought.

[AeroDynamic]

people did the same comparisons with Vettel and MC and most of them told that Vettel is next MC but he is not. Legend is a Legend. It is not good to compare with Legend. The legend should be raised again. We will come to know after few years that, IS Max really a Legend....??? It is a big question mark.

In your eyes, Max already is a legend in mine. What he has already achieved and the level of control and skill he has is works of legends.

see I am not against your thought. we had similar situation with Vettel when he was with RB. once he come out he is no where. Now most of the people forgot that he is 4 time WDC.

I am afraid this could happen to Max as well. This is my thought.

Same as Ricciardo right?

Red Bull cars are very good. they have attracted unproven one-trick ponies – thats the after thought when drivers have left that team, its been a trend.

Interestingly, with Max, drivers who paired with him at Red Bull since Daniel, have been somewhere. with equal cars, Perez was able to out-qualify verstappen. It happened at the beginning of both years, but in 2021 the car didn't have understeer as a feature.

RBR do like to manufacture things.

[Sieper]

people did the same comparisons with Vettel and MC and most of them told that Vettel is next MC but he is not. Legend is a Legend. It is not good to compare with Legend. The legend should be raised again. We will come to know after few years that, IS Max really a Legend....??? It is a big question mark.

In your eyes, Max already is a legend in mine. What he has already achieved and the level of control and skill he has is works of legends.

see I am not against your thought. we had similar situation with Vettel when he was with RB. once he come out he is no where. Now most of the people forgot that he is 4 time WDC.

I am afraid this could happen to Max as well. This is my thought.

Thank you for clarifying. Well, Max was also legendary in carts and his single single seater season was also the work of magic. People claiming “but Ocon won” really need to go see the races (most of them are on YouTube in full length) and also understand how many technical issues Max suffered with his Volkswagen engine. The season was so impressive Marko put him in an F1 car straight away.

I don’t like to compare Max to other great/good drivers. Neither does Max, he just says I am Max and I fully agree with that outlook.

[Sieper]

In your eyes, Max already is a legend in mine. What he has already achieved and the level of control and skill he has is works of legends.

see I am not against your thought. we had similar situation with Vettel when he was with RB. once he come out he is no where. Now most of the people forgot that he is 4 time WDC.

I am afraid this could happen to Max as well. This is my thought.

Same as Ricciardo right?

Red Bull cars are very good. they have attracted unproven one-trick ponies – thats the after thought when drivers have left that team, its been a trend.

Interestingly, with Max, drivers who paired with him at Red Bull since Daniel, have been somewhere. with equal cars, Perez was able to out-qualify verstappen. It happened at the beginning of both years, but in 2021 the car didn't have understeer as a feature.

RBR do like to manufacture things.

But I already know your outlook on Max so no surprise here.

[selvam_e2002]

In your eyes, Max already is a legend in mine. What he has already achieved and the level of control and skill he has is works of legends.

see I am not against your thought. we had similar situation with Vettel when he was with RB. once he come out he is no where. Now most of the people forgot that he is 4 time WDC.

I am afraid this could happen to Max as well. This is my thought.

Same as Ricciardo right?

Red Bull cars are very good. they have attracted unproven one-trick ponies – thats the after thought when drivers have left that team, its been a trend.

Interestingly, with Max, drivers who paired with him at Red Bull since Daniel, have been somewhere.

RBR do like to manufacture things.

yes. same as Ricciardo. He is still struggling with Mclaren not sure why.

IN RB, The car may be more focused on Max instead of neutral like Mercedes/Ferrari/Alpine etc.

The main point here is, The RB will get good market place and the drink will sell well but if Max out from RB, Max will suffer more compare to RB. similar to what happen to Vettel and Ric. People will soon forgot them.

in my point of view, RB using Max, once they done with him, they will through away and look for next one.

But in case of Mc,Prost, Senna, this is not the case. The are true legend.

[AeroDynamic]

see I am not against your thought. we had similar situation with Vettel when he was with RB. once he come out he is no where. Now most of the people forgot that he is 4 time WDC.

I am afraid this could happen to Max as well. This is my thought.

Same as Ricciardo right?

Red Bull cars are very good. they have attracted unproven one-trick ponies – thats the after thought when drivers have left that team, its been a trend.

Interestingly, with Max, drivers who paired with him at Red Bull since Daniel, have been somewhere.

RBR do like to manufacture things.

yes. same as Ricciardo. He is still struggling with Mclaren not sure why.

IN RB, The car may be more focused on Max instead of neutral like Mercedes/Ferrari/Alpine etc.

The main point here is, The RB will get good market place and the drink will sell well but if Max out from RB, Max will suffer more compare to RB. similar to what happen to Vettel and Ric. People will soon forgot them.

in my point of view, RB using Max, once they done with him, they will through away and look for next one.

But in case of Mc,Prost, Senna, this is not the case. The are true legend.

Greats shined immediately, Max had a couple of moments but most remember him for fast tracking his own reputation for crashing. Amongst even neutral fans.

We need to see for some years to figure out how Max stacks up. The next generation always shines quickly to the previous, but its about dominating your own generation to be a great. Greats also win in other teams.

RBR are truly a great team track side, they are the best these days. With a great car, a very good driver can look immaculate with them. Especially if they get behind that driver to do the winning for them.

[mendis]

see I am not against your thought. we had similar situation with Vettel when he was with RB. once he come out he is no where. Now most of the people forgot that he is 4 time WDC.

I am afraid this could happen to Max as well. This is my thought.

Same as Ricciardo right?

Red Bull cars are very good. they have attracted unproven one-trick ponies – thats the after thought when drivers have left that team, its been a trend.

Interestingly, with Max, drivers who paired with him at Red Bull since Daniel, have been somewhere.

RBR do like to manufacture things.

yes. same as Ricciardo. He is still struggling with Mclaren not sure why.

IN RB, The car may be more focused on Max instead of neutral like Mercedes/Ferrari/Alpine etc.

The main point here is, The RB will get good market place and the drink will sell well but if Max out from RB, Max will suffer more compare to RB. similar to what happen to Vettel and Ric. People will soon forgot them.

in my point of view, RB using Max, once they done with him, they will through away and look for next one.

But in case of Mc,Prost, Senna, this is not the case. The are true legend.

Mr. Genius, if you do not know a small piece of information, let me tell you. In the world of data, the one that you are also using, statistics represent a pattern of what has happened. It cannot guarantee what happens in future. That's data science. So, wait for Max to go to another team and suffer, then proclaim your victory. Until then, yours is just soothsaying. Well, the bad news is, Max is locked up at Red Bull until 2028! Hopefully, we can all live to see what happens in 2029, if Red Bull isn't a good car and Max then decides to leave to antoher team in 2029. Phew, that's a really long time from now. Within that time frame, who knows how many titles Max would have won and how much pain he is going pile-on on his ditractors.

On the legends part, didn't Senna go to Williams and struggle? Didn't Michael go to Mercedes and struggle? What exactly did Prost achieve at Ferrari?

[Sieper]

I think this reads a little bit as someone who already expects Max to do very well in the future. As he has in the passed. And not only do well, but also win.

That was the exclusive territory of someone else for nearly a decade and then it meant everything. So now it must mean nothing.

In a way, it is a great compliment to Max.

[AeroDynamic]

Same as Ricciardo right?

Red Bull cars are very good. they have attracted unproven one-trick ponies – thats the after thought when drivers have left that team, its been a trend.

Interestingly, with Max, drivers who paired with him at Red Bull since Daniel, have been somewhere.

RBR do like to manufacture things.

yes. same as Ricciardo. He is still struggling with Mclaren not sure why.

IN RB, The car may be more focused on Max instead of neutral like Mercedes/Ferrari/Alpine etc.

The main point here is, The RB will get good market place and the drink will sell well but if Max out from RB, Max will suffer more compare to RB. similar to what happen to Vettel and Ric. People will soon forgot them.

in my point of view, RB using Max, once they done with him, they will through away and look for next one.

But in case of Mc,Prost, Senna, this is not the case. The are true legend.

Mr. Genius, if you do not know a small piece of information, let me tell you. In the world of data, the one that you are also using, statistics represent a pattern of what has happened. It cannot guarantee what happens in future. That's data science. So, wait for Max to go to another team and suffer, then proclaim your victory. Until then, yours is just soothsaying. Well, the bad news is, Max is locked up at Red Bull until 2028! Hopefully, we can all live to see what happens in 2029, if Red Bull isn't a good car and Max then decides to leave to antoher team in 2029. Phew, that's a really long time from now. Within that time frame, who knows how many titles Max would have won and how much pain he is going pile-on on his ditractors.

On the legends part, didn't Senna go to Williams and struggle? Didn't Michael go to Mercedes and struggle? What exactly did Prost achieve at Ferrari?

Didn't Senna have a struggling williams? to his teammate, he was not struggling to shine, he still put the car on pole. The car was just changing balance lap to lap. His ability to adapt to it is what kept a williams fighting the Benetton.

Michael came out of retirement and was clearly past his best.

Prost almost beat Senna in the Ferrari in 90. He also had Damon covered despite being past his best at that age. He might not have dominated Damon but was still strong.

Ricciardo and Vettel struggled to stay on top of teammates and adapt. It' hard to gauge how strong Vettel was with Kimi as his teammate; he was past his best as well. Vettel looked okay against Charles in 2019 but the car was heavily built around Sebastian at that time. As soon as the car's characteristics catered towards Charles, Seb was no where. I'm sure some of it was to do with motivation but I would venture to say some of the motivation drop was down to him knowing he couldn't stay ahead of Leclerc in that car.

Drivers stop being past their best after a certain age. Maybe the very good ones fall off a cliff sooner. Some others might have a longer run at a higher level and remain very competitive in new cars and next generation teammates. Perhaps they are the drivers that are in the 'great' or 'legend' category.

[Sieper]

Same as Ricciardo right?

Red Bull cars are very good. they have attracted unproven one-trick ponies – thats the after thought when drivers have left that team, its been a trend.

Interestingly, with Max, drivers who paired with him at Red Bull since Daniel, have been somewhere.

RBR do like to manufacture things.

yes. same as Ricciardo. He is still struggling with Mclaren not sure why.

IN RB, The car may be more focused on Max instead of neutral like Mercedes/Ferrari/Alpine etc.

The main point here is, The RB will get good market place and the drink will sell well but if Max out from RB, Max will suffer more compare to RB. similar to what happen to Vettel and Ric. People will soon forgot them.

in my point of view, RB using Max, once they done with him, they will through away and look for next one.

But in case of Mc,Prost, Senna, this is not the case. The are true legend.

Greats shined immediately, Max had a couple of moments but most remember him for fast tracking his own reputation for crashing. Amongst even neutral fans.

We need to see for some years to figure out how Max stacks up. The next generation always shines quickly to the previous, but its about dominating your own generation to be a great. Greats also win in other teams.

RBR are truly a great team track side, they are the best these days. With a great car, a very good driver can look immaculate with them. Especially if they get behind that driver to do the winning for them.

When Max came in to RBR they were the 3rd best team, after that sometimes up to 2nd, then back to 3rd etc. but he sticked with them and together they worked, got the spat out Honda on board (who needed a lot of convincing) worked with them and now they are the best team. For other drivers that has been called to stuff of legends.

[mendis]

yes. same as Ricciardo. He is still struggling with Mclaren not sure why.

IN RB, The car may be more focused on Max instead of neutral like Mercedes/Ferrari/Alpine etc.

The main point here is, The RB will get good market place and the drink will sell well but if Max out from RB, Max will suffer more compare to RB. similar to what happen to Vettel and Ric. People will soon forgot them.

in my point of view, RB using Max, once they done with him, they will through away and look for next one.

But in case of Mc,Prost, Senna, this is not the case. The are true legend.

Mr. Genius, if you do not know a small piece of information, let me tell you. In the world of data, the one that you are also using, statistics represent a pattern of what has happened. It cannot guarantee what happens in future. That's data science. So, wait for Max to go to another team and suffer, then proclaim your victory. Until then, yours is just soothsaying. Well, the bad news is, Max is locked up at Red Bull until 2028! Hopefully, we can all live to see what happens in 2029, if Red Bull isn't a good car and Max then decides to leave to antoher team in 2029. Phew, that's a really long time from now. Within that time frame, who knows how many titles Max would have won and how much pain he is going pile-on on his ditractors.

On the legends part, didn't Senna go to Williams and struggle? Didn't Michael go to Mercedes and struggle? What exactly did Prost achieve at Ferrari?

Didn't Senna have a struggling williams? to his teammate, he was not struggling to shine, he still put the car on pole. The car was just changing balance lap to lap. His ability to adapt to it is what kept a williams fighting the Benetton.

Michael came out of retirement and was clearly past his best.

Prost almost beat Senna in the Ferrari in 90. He also had Damon covered despite being past his best at that age. He might not have dominated Damon but was still strong.

Ricciardo and Vettel struggled to stay on top of teammates and adapt. It' hard to gauge how strong Vettel was with Kimi as his teammate; he was past his best as well. Vettel looked okay against Charles in 2019 but the car was heavily built around Sebastian at that time. As soon as the car's characteristics catered towards Charles, Seb was no where. I'm sure some of it was to do with motivation but I would venture to say some of the motivation drop was down to him knowing he couldn't stay ahead of Leclerc in that car.

Didn't Vettel beat his team mate at Ferrari, won races and took poles? Didn't Ricciardo beat his team mates at Renault? It's perfectly OK to be beaten by a young, talented, superstar new talent. No shame in that. Wasn't Schumacher beaten at Mercedes by a young Rosberg? We can go all day long trying to pull down achievements for all the drivers. That is not going to change anything. Neither I can change your opinion, nor can you.

[AeroDynamic]

yes. same as Ricciardo. He is still struggling with Mclaren not sure why.

IN RB, The car may be more focused on Max instead of neutral like Mercedes/Ferrari/Alpine etc.

The main point here is, The RB will get good market place and the drink will sell well but if Max out from RB, Max will suffer more compare to RB. similar to what happen to Vettel and Ric. People will soon forgot them.

in my point of view, RB using Max, once they done with him, they will through away and look for next one.

But in case of Mc,Prost, Senna, this is not the case. The are true legend.

Greats shined immediately, Max had a couple of moments but most remember him for fast tracking his own reputation for crashing. Amongst even neutral fans.

We need to see for some years to figure out how Max stacks up. The next generation always shines quickly to the previous, but its about dominating your own generation to be a great. Greats also win in other teams.

RBR are truly a great team track side, they are the best these days. With a great car, a very good driver can look immaculate with them. Especially if they get behind that driver to do the winning for them.

When Max came in to RBR they were the 3rd best team, after that sometimes up to 2nd, then back to 3rd etc. but he sticked with them and together they worked, got the spat out Honda on board (who needed a lot of convincing) worked with them and now they are the best team. For other drivers that has been called to stuff of legends.

I don't agree with RBR being the 3rd best team. They have been great, and certainly better than Ferrari during the Hybrid years. They just lacked a top engine and top drivers.

I would have loved to see this '22 season with Max in the Ferrari and Leclerc in the Red Bull. I think Max would've taken the title further than Leclerc did for Ferrari. I don't think Max would look immaculate by any stretch though.


The driver is as good as their engine and team and car. They are the ceiling of the drivers performance, and vice versa.

Max has been the better driver over Leclerc this year. However, Red Bull track side has convincingly beaten Ferrari more than Max has beaten Leclerc. Ferrari have literally been amateurish on trackside, so not a good challenge.

Honda has convincingly beaten Ferrari as an engine manufacturer as well.

[Sieper]

Greats shined immediately, Max had a couple of moments but most remember him for fast tracking his own reputation for crashing. Amongst even neutral fans.

We need to see for some years to figure out how Max stacks up. The next generation always shines quickly to the previous, but its about dominating your own generation to be a great. Greats also win in other teams.

RBR are truly a great team track side, they are the best these days. With a great car, a very good driver can look immaculate with them. Especially if they get behind that driver to do the winning for them.

When Max came in to RBR they were the 3rd best team, after that sometimes up to 2nd, then back to 3rd etc. but he sticked with them and together they worked, got the spat out Honda on board (who needed a lot of convincing) worked with them and now they are the best team. For other drivers that has been called to stuff of legends.

I don't agree with RBR being the 3rd best team. They have been great, and certainly better than Ferrari during the Hybrid years. They just lacked a top engine and top drivers.

I would have loved to see this '22 season with Max in the Ferrari and Leclerc in the Red Bull. I think Max would've taken the title further than Leclerc did for Ferrari. I don't think Max would look immaculate by any stretch though.


The driver is as good as their engine and team and car. They are the ceiling of the drivers performance, and vice versa.

Max has been the better driver over Leclerc this year. However, Red Bull track side has convincingly beaten Ferrari more than Max has beaten Leclerc. Ferrari have literally been amateurish on trackside, so not a good challenge.

Honda has convincingly beaten Ferrari as an engine manufacturer as well.

Max has also convincingly beaten Leclerc to F1 from the junior series (where he beat him convincingly as well) they are the exact same age. To me that too is stuff of legends. Nobody ever did that before him. You can't be compared to others when your job is not yet done. But it has started and everything so far is the stuff of legends.

[AeroDynamic]

When Max came in to RBR they were the 3rd best team, after that sometimes up to 2nd, then back to 3rd etc. but he sticked with them and together they worked, got the spat out Honda on board (who needed a lot of convincing) worked with them and now they are the best team. For other drivers that has been called to stuff of legends.

I don't agree with RBR being the 3rd best team. They have been great, and certainly better than Ferrari during the Hybrid years. They just lacked a top engine and top drivers.

I would have loved to see this '22 season with Max in the Ferrari and Leclerc in the Red Bull. I think Max would've taken the title further than Leclerc did for Ferrari. I don't think Max would look immaculate by any stretch though.


The driver is as good as their engine and team and car. They are the ceiling of the drivers performance, and vice versa.

Max has been the better driver over Leclerc this year. However, Red Bull track side has convincingly beaten Ferrari more than Max has beaten Leclerc. Ferrari have literally been amateurish on trackside, so not a good challenge.

Honda has convincingly beaten Ferrari as an engine manufacturer as well.

Max has also convincingly beaten Leclerc to F1 from the junior series (where he beat him convincingly as well) they are the exact same age. To me that too is stuff of legends. Nobody ever did that before him. You can't be compared to others when your job is not yet done. But it has started and everything so far is the stuff of legends.

He did a good job with what he had started with as well: an F1 driver father to closely school him and prepare him to be there. A driver who had experience driving next to Michael as well.

Jos invested more into developing Max possibly more than other F1 driver-fathers have before him. Some have suggested he was abusive in the pursuit of developing Max's talents, but for peace sakes we'll call it 'tough love' around here.

[Just_a_fan]

Max has also convincingly beaten Leclerc to F1 from the junior series (where he beat him convincingly as well) they are the exact same age. To me that too is stuff of legends. Nobody ever did that before him. You can't be compared to others when your job is not yet done. But it has started and everything so far is the stuff of legends.

Max never raced against Leclerc in cars in junior formulae, did he? Max only did one season in F3 back in 2014 and he came third. Ocon won that year. S'funny how Ocon doesn't figure on many people's radar. He's doing a decent job this year against Fernando, after all.