2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[Gillian]

This thread is transending down into a big cess pool of driver d*** comparison sh**. It started with a basic question by a poster asking if there are parallels of Max's 2 titles to Michael's 2 titles at Benetton. It would be wise to open another thread to have that oft beaten discussion. Mods, your intervention would help.

To be fair - I was reading through the rpevious posts and was thinking we've veered way off the beaten track here.

Can we return the 2022 Reb Bull Team discussion please guys(and gals)

Happy to lift and shift the previous posts into another thread if someone wanted to continue this conversation?

What would be the point of another thread like that? It will become just another pre-school my daddy is stronger than your daddy discussion.

Some drivers are just incredibly talented and if you've been watching F1 (or motorsports in general), for a few decades, you can look beyond meaningless statistics to differentiate between the good and great.

Me personally I'm very happy we've got Verstappen because I was a bit worried we'd go some time without exceptional talent when Hamilton and Alonso retire.

[selvam_e2002]

This thread is transending down into a big cess pool of driver d*** comparison sh**. It started with a basic question by a poster asking if there are parallels of Max's 2 titles to Michael's 2 titles at Benetton. It would be wise to open another thread to have that oft beaten discussion. Mods, your intervention would help.

To be fair - I was reading through the rpevious posts and was thinking we've veered way off the beaten track here.

Can we return the 2022 Reb Bull Team discussion please guys(and gals)

Happy to lift and shift the previous posts into another thread if someone wanted to continue this conversation?

What would be the point of another thread like that? It will become just another pre-school my daddy is stronger than your daddy discussion.

Some drivers are just incredibly talented and if you've been watching F1 (or motorsports in general), for a few decades, you can look beyond meaningless statistics to differentiate between the good and great.

Me personally I'm very happy we've got Verstappen because I was a bit worried we'd go some time without exceptional talent when Hamilton and Alonso retire.

Max does not have exceptional talent. He is with RB and he will be and he will retire with RB. The drivers talent can be judged by how he drive the car with less of his driving like and how quickly he can adopt to it. neither of previous driver so called Vettel similar hype when he with RB and Ric not able to shine out side of RB. So wait till Max come out from RB then we will see how the so called "exceptional" talent can survive out is of his comfort zone.

[proteus]

To be fair - I was reading through the rpevious posts and was thinking we've veered way off the beaten track here.

Can we return the 2022 Reb Bull Team discussion please guys(and gals)

Happy to lift and shift the previous posts into another thread if someone wanted to continue this conversation?

What would be the point of another thread like that? It will become just another pre-school my daddy is stronger than your daddy discussion.

Some drivers are just incredibly talented and if you've been watching F1 (or motorsports in general), for a few decades, you can look beyond meaningless statistics to differentiate between the good and great.

Me personally I'm very happy we've got Verstappen because I was a bit worried we'd go some time without exceptional talent when Hamilton and Alonso retire.

Max does not have exceptional talent. He is with RB and he will be and he will retire with RB. The drivers talent can be judged by how he drive the car with less of his driving like and how quickly he can adopt to it. neither of previous driver so called Vettel similar hype when he with RB and Ric not able to shine out side of RB. So wait till Max come out from RB then we will see how the so called "exceptional" talent can survive out is of his comfort zone.

He managed to win with RedBull right away, even though the car was not tailored to him. And i believe every driver would look mediocre with a troublesome machine.

[Curbstone]

To be fair - I was reading through the rpevious posts and was thinking we've veered way off the beaten track here.

Can we return the 2022 Reb Bull Team discussion please guys(and gals)

Happy to lift and shift the previous posts into another thread if someone wanted to continue this conversation?

What would be the point of another thread like that? It will become just another pre-school my daddy is stronger than your daddy discussion.

Some drivers are just incredibly talented and if you've been watching F1 (or motorsports in general), for a few decades, you can look beyond meaningless statistics to differentiate between the good and great.

Me personally I'm very happy we've got Verstappen because I was a bit worried we'd go some time without exceptional talent when Hamilton and Alonso retire.

Max does not have exceptional talent. He is with RB and he will be and he will retire with RB. The drivers talent can be judged by how he drive the car with less of his driving like and how quickly he can adopt to it. neither of previous driver so called Vettel similar hype when he with RB and Ric not able to shine out side of RB. So wait till Max come out from RB then we will see how the so called "exceptional" talent can survive out is of his comfort zone.

You are one of the very few with that opinion. It's also a conclusion which has no foundation other than 'a lack of proof automatically proves the contrary'. A lack of proof (apart from how fair the proof you are asking is) doesn't automatically proof the contrary. Maybe you are not convinced he is an exceptional talent, but if you are looking at indicators, all of them point towards a label of 'exceptional talent'

[e30ernest]

I think Max is very talented. But I really hope he doesn't end his career with RB. I want to see him win WDCs in other teams too.

[selvam_e2002]

What would be the point of another thread like that? It will become just another pre-school my daddy is stronger than your daddy discussion.

Some drivers are just incredibly talented and if you've been watching F1 (or motorsports in general), for a few decades, you can look beyond meaningless statistics to differentiate between the good and great.

Me personally I'm very happy we've got Verstappen because I was a bit worried we'd go some time without exceptional talent when Hamilton and Alonso retire.

Max does not have exceptional talent. He is with RB and he will be and he will retire with RB. The drivers talent can be judged by how he drive the car with less of his driving like and how quickly he can adopt to it. neither of previous driver so called Vettel similar hype when he with RB and Ric not able to shine out side of RB. So wait till Max come out from RB then we will see how the so called "exceptional" talent can survive out is of his comfort zone.

You are one of the very few with that opinion. It's also a conclusion which has no foundation other than 'a lack of proof automatically proves the contrary'. A lack of proof (apart from how fair the proof you are asking is) doesn't automatically proof the contrary. Maybe you are not convinced he is an exceptional talent, but if you are looking at indicators, all of them point towards a label of 'exceptional talent'

I am speaking with data because previous two drivers from RB could not prove them self out side of RB comfort zone.

This same praises and comparison happened with Vettel as well. This is happening for Max now.

[Sieper]

Max won WDC while the redbull wasnt even the WCC car last year, a feat Vettel never produced. In fact, Max won with redbull in every year he drove for them, even when redbull was 3rd in WCC for 2 of those years. Mercedes will be 3rd in WCC this year (I expect, but 2nd is still on the table) and sofar Hamilton has not won a race.

It seems you have now found a new angle to drive (The Vettel comparison) but you are forgetting quite a few facts there. Max is exceptional.

You are forgetting one more fact too, the admins have already posted a mod break on this so just give it a rest.

[Curbstone]

I am speaking with data because previous two drivers from RB could not prove them self out side of RB comfort zone.

This same praises and comparison happened with Vettel as well. This is happening for Max now.

You are speaking with a lack of data, which you conveniently fill in with data from another dataset (driver). Vettel isn't Ricciardo, and both aren't Verstappen. Your assessment isn't data driven, it's bias driven.

[Gillian]

Max does not have exceptional talent. He is with RB and he will be and he will retire with RB. The drivers talent can be judged by how he drive the car with less of his driving like and how quickly he can adopt to it. neither of previous driver so called Vettel similar hype when he with RB and Ric not able to shine out side of RB. So wait till Max come out from RB then we will see how the so called "exceptional" talent can survive out is of his comfort zone.

You are one of the very few with that opinion. It's also a conclusion which has no foundation other than 'a lack of proof automatically proves the contrary'. A lack of proof (apart from how fair the proof you are asking is) doesn't automatically proof the contrary. Maybe you are not convinced he is an exceptional talent, but if you are looking at indicators, all of them point towards a label of 'exceptional talent'

I am speaking with data because previous two drivers from RB could not prove them self out side of RB comfort zone.

This same praises and comparison happened with Vettel as well. This is happening for Max now.

Vettel was and is an excellent qualifier if the conditions are right but in the years he won he always struggled when he could not start from pole and blast away. Alonso was the best driver by a large margin in the 4 years that Vettel won with Hamilton a clear second for me personally.

I don't see the correlation you're getting at.

[Sieper]

This is also something that has been calculated, rather then just personal bias interpretation on this blog (link hereunder). Ofcourse the algorithm can still include a bias, but it is explained in the blog too.

Alonso was the best driver during all 4 of Vettel’s championships:

https://f1-analysis.com/2022/05/31/who-is-the-f1-goat/

[mendis]

To be fair - I was reading through the rpevious posts and was thinking we've veered way off the beaten track here.

Can we return the 2022 Reb Bull Team discussion please guys(and gals)

Happy to lift and shift the previous posts into another thread if someone wanted to continue this conversation?

What would be the point of another thread like that? It will become just another pre-school my daddy is stronger than your daddy discussion.

Some drivers are just incredibly talented and if you've been watching F1 (or motorsports in general), for a few decades, you can look beyond meaningless statistics to differentiate between the good and great.

Me personally I'm very happy we've got Verstappen because I was a bit worried we'd go some time without exceptional talent when Hamilton and Alonso retire.

Max does not have exceptional talent. He is with RB and he will be and he will retire with RB. The drivers talent can be judged by how he drive the car with less of his driving like and how quickly he can adopt to it. neither of previous driver so called Vettel similar hype when he with RB and Ric not able to shine out side of RB. So wait till Max come out from RB then we will see how the so called "exceptional" talent can survive out is of his comfort zone.

[Gillian]

This is also something that has been calculated, rather then just personal bias interpretation on this blog (link hereunder). Ofcourse the algorithm can still include a bias, but it is explained in the blog too.

Alonso was the best driver during all 4 of Vettel’s championships:

https://f1-analysis.com/2022/05/31/who-is-the-f1-goat/

I really didn't like Alonso at all at that time but yeah, his performances where stellar. I was always cheering for Hamilton, but he was less consistent during that period. Some really good qualifying efforts from him and I remember a few spectacular drives of Hamilton where he had to come from the back. But then he also had silly mistakes from time to time. I think after losing in 2016 he really took another step and then in 2018 he just drove so well, it was such a joy to watch.

Sorry for the offtopic ramble but I just wish we could all love the sport and value the drivers/cars for what they are, regardless the language they speak, the country they live, the colour of their skin etc.

I will shut up now.

[Sieper]

Me too and I was only glancingly looking at F1 in these years but I too rooted for Hamilton based on is spectacular performances. Not saying Alonso wasnt good but for me Vettel falls in a other category.

Mods please feel free to cut and paste all this into a rubbish bin or a "my driver is better than yours" topic (that will need to be locked at some point).

[Gillian]

Me too and I was only glancingly looking at F1 in these years but I too rooted for Hamilton based on is spectacular performances. Not saying Alonso wasnt good but for me Vettel falls in a other category.

Mods please feel free to cut and paste all this into a rubbish bin or a "my driver is better than yours" topic (that will need to be locked at some point).

[Wouter]

A strange end of the race in Japan.



Also an interview with Max, Horner and Newey.