2021 Cost Cap Rumours and Speculation

[Sieper]

I actually don't have a problem with the voided title idea. Just mark 2021 down as "no champion" and move on. That's probably the simplest outcome all round.

I'm sure Lewis, just like every other driver, wouldn't want to be given a title a year later because a rival was disqualified. That's not how these guys work. None of them want "asterisk championships".

But it isn’t, only in your mind, I would rather call it a “Exclamation mark” championship. Beating Lewis in the WCC car despite a lot of bad luck and other things.

Mercedes has fought tooth and nail to try and get it overturned and now with this cap story it is just the new/last straw to try and clutch on to. Same playbook is being carried out by the same players. Toto “not wanting to be the judge” then proceeding with the verdict. Mercedes engine customer also being lined up to chime in. Exactly the same as last round.

You missed my team, Ferrari of that list, we have said the same as Toto has pretty much, not the same choice of words mind, but the same none the less.

In describing Max's title last year, he WAS deserving, i caps "was" for a reason, With what happened on the last race was out side of teams control, ok sure, But throwing in a technically ( via overspending ) illegal car on top is to much. it does question the championship, when taking into account Horner does say only 200 odd k can be enough ( as dan posted above ).

Of course that is my opinion

Of course, we all have opinions. And most, if not all posted here, are colored by team allegiance. Not saying that mine isn’t but we have some extremely loud and unpleasant ones thinking theirs is somehow more truthful or even rule/reality.

We’ll just have to wait what comes out of this. Imho the measures worked as for the first time in a decade two different teams fought until the last race.

[mwillems]

Someone asked yesterday about a Horner comment about going $100,000 over budget and that possibly being significant.

But he did say this back in May at the Monaco Team principles press conference. Keep in mind this was when the budget cap was still $140M. It didn't get rasised to $144.3M untill July!

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... %20quickly

CH: Yeah, just to clear up a couple of comments have been attributed to missing races. I think what I was trying to point-out last weekend, when I was asked the question, was, it would be the equivalent of. We would have to miss numerous races to get anywhere near obviously getting costs under the cap. And I think certainly all the major teams are going to breach that that 140 count this year. Now, what we don't want to end up doing is, as Mattia has pointed out, there's a 5% threshold for a minor breach. What is the penalty for a minor breach? And what we don't want to do is end up playing a game of chicken. As to say: does he go to 4.9 over? Do we go to 4.7 over? And that would be one upgrade that could be the differentiating factor of, you know, this World Championship. So, I think what we do need is clarity, and clarity quickly.

.
In short Horner said $280k (0.2% of $140M) could be the difference between winning and loosing a championship!

.
And what is your point? This is about 2022 due to inflation.

He was making the point yesterday that Horner had stated the importance of overspend of very little amounts, but couldn't find the link and was told he was confusing it with another statement.

In fact the statement exists, so it is interesting to see that Horner deems £280k to be very valuable and able to define a championship. Those words could well haunt him. Hopefully some Journos come here looking for a story and those quotes get published more widely.

[Mosin123]

Aftershocks are still going round, but if we give the title to Ham we are triggering another earthquake.

Only if it’s not plainly simply by explaining the rules.

The rider who won the Tour after Armstrong’s 7th was another American, Floyd Landis. Months after the Tour had been finished he returned a positive for EPO for one of the stages at the Tour, the decisive one that created his overall victory.

He cheated, it was discovered after the race, he was banned and the win was handed to the person who finished 2nd. Clear in the rules.

Landis then went on to finally start the process that got Armstrong stripped of his titles. But it was so later those Tours officially have no winners now.

There is no way that reversing the title decision will not cause a huge uproar even bigger than the sport has had in a very long time

For who? The FIA? Last time i checked, The teams seem to be pushing for a harsh penalty, so they will be annoyed should rb get off lightly, 2 of the sports top teams too, If they get punihsed harsh, The only ones i see being in uproar are RB / Max and fans of that team / driver. Not sure any body else, so the other 9 teams, 18 drivers and all their fans will be too upset, I picture most laughing at Redbull and giving a clap to the FIA instead of moaning about it?

[Rodak]

The after shocks of last year are still going round and no body has moved on, the fia came to a decision only max fans agree with, no nuetral fan i know believes LH shouldn't have last years title, only redbull / max fans, if you think all is ok when only 1 party is happy with the outcome i guess we have different interpretations of ok..

You certainly don't speak for me. I'm not a rabid Max fan and have simply let it go. This constant harping on last year has really gotten old......

[Just_a_fan]

Completely the opposite. It is just LH fans who are desperately out for getting a title he lost to Max. All neutral fans I have spoken with, seen commentaries of, feel Max is the deserved champion.

I actually don't have a problem with the voided title idea. Just mark 2021 down as "no champion" and move on. That's probably the simplest outcome all round.

I'm sure Lewis, just like every other driver, wouldn't want to be given a title a year later because a rival was disqualified. That's not how these guys work. None of them want "asterisk championships".

But it isn’t, only in your mind, I would rather call it a “Exclamation mark” championship. Beating Lewis in the WCC car despite a lot of bad luck and other things.

Mercedes has fought tooth and nail to try and get it overturned and now with this cap story it is just the new/last straw to try and clutch on to. Same playbook is being carried out by the same players. Toto “not wanting to be the judge” then proceeding with the verdict. Mercedes engine customer also being lined up to chime in. Exactly the same as last round.

You miss, yet again, my point. The "asterisk championship" referred to the unlikely even of it being given to Lewis if Max was disqualified. Perhaps you should read what is written, parse it briefly, and then formulate a response instead of shooting from the hip.

As for Mercedes fighting tooth and nail to overturn 2021, I seem to remember they didn't do that at all. They were angry for a short while and then backed off allowing it to stand.

Ferrari aren't a Mercedes engine customer. Ferrari aren't happy about the budget cap situation either. So that puts the nail in the coffin lid of that particular conspiracy.

At the moment, only one team has been found to be in breach of the budget cap. That team is Red Bull. All others managed to stay within the budget cap and many of the teams and drivers aren't impressed that one team didn't do so.

[mwillems]

Only if it’s not plainly simply by explaining the rules.

The rider who won the Tour after Armstrong’s 7th was another American, Floyd Landis. Months after the Tour had been finished he returned a positive for EPO for one of the stages at the Tour, the decisive one that created his overall victory.

He cheated, it was discovered after the race, he was banned and the win was handed to the person who finished 2nd. Clear in the rules.

Landis then went on to finally start the process that got Armstrong stripped of his titles. But it was so later those Tours officially have no winners now.

There is no way that reversing the title decision will not cause a huge uproar even bigger than the sport has had in a very long time

For who? The FIA? Last time i checked, The teams seem to be pushing for a harsh penalty, so they will be annoyed should rb get off lightly, 2 of the sports top teams too, If they get punihsed harsh, The only ones i see being in uproar are RB / Max and fans of that team / driver. Not sure any body else, so the other 9 teams, 18 drivers and all their fans will be too upset, I picture most laughing at Redbull and giving a clap to the FIA instead of moaning about it?

I disagree, if they take away the '21 title of Verstappen now, it would likely reduce further the credibility of the FIA not increase it from fans, supporters and journos. And yes, RB and Max fans will go nuts too.

[dans79]

There is no way that reversing the title decision will not cause a huge uproar even bigger than the sport has had in a very long time

For who? The FIA? Last time i checked, The teams seem to be pushing for a harsh penalty, so they will be annoyed should rb get off lightly, 2 of the sports top teams too, If they get punihsed harsh, The only ones i see being in uproar are RB / Max and fans of that team / driver. Not sure any body else, so the other 9 teams, 18 drivers and all their fans will be too upset, I picture most laughing at Redbull and giving a clap to the FIA instead of moaning about it?

I disagree, if they take away the '21 title of Verstappen now, it would likely reduce further the credibility of the FIA not increase it from fans, supporters and journos. And yes, RB and Max fans will go nuts too.

Well then it's decision time for the FIA!

They are going to have to decide if they are an actual governing body, who enforces rules, or just a $$$ leach doing whatever keeps a subset of the teams/promoters/fans happy and thus the $$$ flowing to them.

[Big Tea]

For who? The FIA? Last time i checked, The teams seem to be pushing for a harsh penalty, so they will be annoyed should rb get off lightly, 2 of the sports top teams too, If they get punihsed harsh, The only ones i see being in uproar are RB / Max and fans of that team / driver. Not sure any body else, so the other 9 teams, 18 drivers and all their fans will be too upset, I picture most laughing at Redbull and giving a clap to the FIA instead of moaning about it?

I disagree, if they take away the '21 title of Verstappen now, it would likely reduce further the credibility of the FIA not increase it from fans, supporters and journos. And yes, RB and Max fans will go nuts too.

Well then it's decision time for the FIA!

They are going to have to decide if they are an actual governing body, who enforces rules, or just a $$$ leach doing whatever keeps a subset of the teams/promoters/fans happy and thus the $$$ flowing to them.

Yeh, they will pay no attention to us, the teams or the press, as we have seen before

[mwillems]

I disagree, if they take away the '21 title of Verstappen now, it would likely reduce further the credibility of the FIA not increase it from fans, supporters and journos. And yes, RB and Max fans will go nuts too.

Well then it's decision time for the FIA!

They are going to have to decide if they are an actual governing body, who enforces rules, or just a $$$ leach doing whatever keeps a subset of the teams/promoters/fans happy and thus the $$$ flowing to them.

Yeh, they will pay no attention to us, the teams or the press, as we have seen before

They will pay attention to their own best interests, that is the consistency of the FIA.

This title is nearly a year old and about to be renewed, Hamilton had the drama of being threatened with sanctions by the FIA for not turning up to the awards ceremony, they whitewashed the result of the investigation, averted a legal case with Mercedes. To overturn the title now would result in an unholy row from many people, possible legal cases and basically a situation worse than the end of last year In my opinion.

Going near that hornets nest would be somewhat insane to consider, but who knows.

F1 is very safe now and I'm glad for it, but it is always good to watch car crashes of other natures, so I kind of hope the FIA do revoke the title! But good luck if they take it off Max and don't give it to Hamilton... Because the world and it's dog will have it's say on that and for the second year running the FIA will look like an absolute sham joke, in a much worse way than was openly discussed at the end of last year.

[chrisc90]

I'm sure Hamilton still hasn't been 'sanctioned' for not turning up to the awards ceremony and seems he gets away with the jewellery saga again.

FIA has no backbone and is all ££££

[mwillems]

I'm sure Hamilton still hasn't been 'sanctioned' for not turning up to the awards ceremony and seems he gets away with the jewellery saga again.

FIA has no backbone and is all ££££

And Verstappen is the ££££.

[Big Tea]

I'm sure Hamilton still hasn't been 'sanctioned' for not turning up to the awards ceremony and seems he gets away with the jewellery saga again.

FIA has no backbone and is all ££££

Some suspect there is a connection between not turning up as 'ordered' and the nosepin saga

[Wouter]

Reading through the posts in this speculation thread, I see little speculation. Most seem 100% certain that RBR cheated and should be punished very severely.
Nobody knows what the disagreement between the accountants of the FIA and RBR are about.

Suppose it is about the payments to Newey. The FIA accountants claim that Newey is not on their staff, but RBR's accountants have looked at the UK law books and read that he is on their staff, despite the fact that he sends RBR bills through his own company.
How can you call that cheating? The FIA has better accountants? They can't have done anything wrong/missed anything?
The blame is always on the team?

It's remarkably quiet at the FIA. I'll wait to see which accountants know best what is meant by employee in the UK law
before accusing them of cheating. After all, I think that is a heavy accusation when nothing is known yet.
That they have been above the BC according to the FIA accountants is one thing, but whether that is true and whether it is cheating
remains to be seen. Until the final result and reason is announced, I will wait quietly.

[cheeRS]

There is no way that reversing the title decision will not cause a huge uproar even bigger than the sport has had in a very long time

For who? The FIA? Last time i checked, The teams seem to be pushing for a harsh penalty, so they will be annoyed should rb get off lightly, 2 of the sports top teams too, If they get punihsed harsh, The only ones i see being in uproar are RB / Max and fans of that team / driver. Not sure any body else, so the other 9 teams, 18 drivers and all their fans will be too upset, I picture most laughing at Redbull and giving a clap to the FIA instead of moaning about it?

I disagree, if they take away the '21 title of Verstappen now, it would likely reduce further the credibility of the FIA not increase it from fans, supporters and journos. And yes, RB and Max fans will go nuts too.

How would it reduce the credibility of the FIA? If the FIA does nothing, or only applies a minor penalty, it would show that the FIA has no power or balls to do the right thing. If they do produce a harsh penalty, such that would take away Max's title last year, it would show that the cost cap is in fact a crucial consideration to F1, and not just a minor regulation.

If roles were reversed, and we found out that Hamilton won his 8th title last year because Mercedes cheated and went over the cost cap, there would be orange smoke around the wolrd.

[Just_a_fan]

I'm sure Hamilton still hasn't been 'sanctioned' for not turning up to the awards ceremony and seems he gets away with the jewellery saga again.

FIA has no backbone and is all ££££

And Verstappen is the ££££.

Er, apparently not: https://www.crash.net/f1/news/1014770/1 ... e-athletes

SportsPro’s most marketable athletes of 2022

1. Cristiano Ronaldo (football)

2. Serena Williams (tennis)

3. Lewis Hamilton (F1)

4. LeBron James (basketball)

5. Lionel Messi (football)

6. Naomi Osaka (tennis)

7. Virat Kohli (cricket)

8. Alex Morgan (football)

9. Sam Kerr (football)

10. Tom Brady (American football)

F1 drivers in the top 50

25. Charles Leclerc

33. Max Verstappen

35. George Russell

36. Sergio Perez

Lewis is third in the world in this assessment, Max is below Charles and only just above George and Sergio, all way, way below Lewis.