2021 Cost Cap Rumours and Speculation

[KeiKo403]

Just to summarize:
1. FIA announced a cost cap breach by Red Bull.
2. Red Bull believe they are well under the cost cap according to their understanding and will work with FIA to understand the matter further.
------------------------------------
3. Writers on websites and social media need to do something for a living and each one has created a fictional branch of information that can represent the area of breach.
4. So far, we have gone on with 84 pages of beating each other on this thread on the basis of above information.

Did I miss anything?

*deleted - being petty, apologies*

[littlebigcat]

There is a Reddit post doing the rounds claiming to have found the change but I think they’ve misread the rules.

If anyone wants to try and prove/disprove it before I get to this evening here it is

https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comme ... &context=3

I’ll say this. Some people are here just to continue their RBR or Mercedes feud. Some people are here to discuss and investigate if the rumoured reason for the breaches are even valid. Some people are here to talk about the process and understand.

There is value in this thread. There is very little value in arguing or calling the general posting in the thread into question

[rijtuig]

There is a Reddit post doing the rounds claiming to have found the change but I think they’ve misread the rules.

If anyone wants to try and prove/disprove it before I get to this evening here it is

https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comme ... &context=3

I’ll say this. Some people are here just to continue their RBR or Mercedes feud. Some people are here to discuss and investigate if the rumoured reason for the breaches are even valid. Some people are here to talk about the process and understand.

There is value in this thread. There is very little value in arguing or calling the general posting in the thread into question

But this is not a surprising factor.

[CMSMJ1]

@littlebigcat - I did put "cheating" in the quotes. It is the inference of people who will say that if you breached the cap, then you cheated. There will be little recourse to the actual rules, as the jury of the people will already decide.


The way to prevent it - any fines are paid to your competitors and they have it as a bonus - free development - on top of their cap.

If you overspend (e.g)5 millions - you have to give that overspend to your rivals out of your own budget (that can be spread over 3 years)

No more cheating... 

Team in breach would be down 45 million bucks and in each year will be 15 million down til they pay it off.

[kalinka]

@CMSMJ1 > Best solution so far IMO. I wanted to propose something similar but your solution is better. Sadly, no one will listen to us.

[Tvetovnato]

@littlebigcat - I did put "cheating" in the quotes. It is the inference of people who will say that if you breached the cap, then you cheated. There will be little recourse to the actual rules, as the jury of the people will already decide.


The way to prevent it - any fines are paid to your competitors and they have it as a bonus - free development - on top of their cap.

If you overspend (e.g)5 millions - you have to give that overspend to your rivals out of your own budget (that can be spread over 3 years)

No more cheating... 

Team in breach would be down 45 million bucks and in each year will be 15 million down til they pay it off.

That opens up for strategies on how to use and circumvent the cap rule though. So any team can in theory then go all in during one season to go for the title as they will keep the title. A team like RB, Mercedes or Ferrari who have a lot of money and can happily pay whatever fines are thrown at them.

No, sporting penalties must be applied, or they might as well remove this whole cap rule. I guarantee that losing your drivers title because of cheating the cap would make sure we don’t see any cap problems ever again.

[feni_remmen]

I like the idea of subsequent years incurring substantial limitations on the team’s future budgets, though it just occurred to me that an incursion should be rectified by just neutralizing their current driver contracts and forcing them to get new drivers. For the big teams, this would really impact them! And make a statement to the world!
Of course, the real answer is that the team loose their license to race and 5 year ban for the team principal, the technical director and their lead driver… plus they retroactively loose the constructor and driver points.

[Big Tea]

Just to summarize:
1. FIA announced a cost cap breach by Red Bull.
2. Red Bull believe they are well under the cost cap according to their understanding and will work with FIA to understand the matter further.
------------------------------------
3. Writers on websites and social media need to do something for a living and each one has created a fictional branch of information that can represent the area of breach.
4. So far, we have gone on with 84 pages of beating each other on this thread on the basis of above information.

Did I miss anything?

Did I miss anything?
Possibly that FIA wrote the rules, and 9 other teams conformed? (Including another Red Bull owned team)

[morefirejules08]

I think that a STATEMENT like that needs a link…

I thought this was pretty common knowledge
https://www.planetf1.com/news/driver-cr ... osts-2021/

A quick bit of mental maths puts them fairly high up the list.
However, I wonder where the figures came from (as opposed to Sky Germany deducing them using some algorithm or other).

3rd or 4th I think. HAAS, Ferrari and Williams are above RB on accident damage costs and all 3 stayed bellow the budget cap meaning that argument is pretty moot.

[PlatinumZealot]

Has there been any retroactive season points deductions in F1 before? As in punishment affecting previous seasons?

In athletics it's normal to apply punishment even ten years after the athlete was found cheating.

The thing is RedBull is such a strong team that even punishments applied going forward might not hurt them that much. And if it doesn't then other teams will take a risk in overspendijg. That's what I fear.

[ME4ME]

Did I miss anything?
Possibly that FIA wrote the rules, and 9 other teams conformed? (Including another Red Bull owned team)

The FIA also writes the technical regulations and every single year 9 teams take the standard interpertation of them and one team finds another and is allowed to run it since it doensn't break the rules, regardless what the FIA initially thought.

The FIA are outsmarted intentionally or unintentially on a regular basis.

[CMSMJ1]

@littlebigcat - I did put "cheating" in the quotes. It is the inference of people who will say that if you breached the cap, then you cheated. There will be little recourse to the actual rules, as the jury of the people will already decide.


The way to prevent it - any fines are paid to your competitors and they have it as a bonus - free development - on top of their cap.

If you overspend (e.g)5 millions - you have to give that overspend to your rivals out of your own budget (that can be spread over 3 years)

No more cheating... 

Team in breach would be down 45 million bucks and in each year will be 15 million down til they pay it off.

That opens up for strategies on how to use and circumvent the cap rule though. So any team can in theory then go all in during one season to go for the title as they will keep the title. A team like RB, Mercedes or Ferrari who have a lot of money and can happily pay whatever fines are thrown at them.

No, sporting penalties must be applied, or they might as well remove this whole cap rule. I guarantee that losing your drivers title because of cheating the cap would make sure we don’t see any cap problems ever again.

I agree that there ought to be sporting penalty too - but not retrospective. Maybe a reduction in points for the coming year? That will also cost them money,

[dans79]

Did I miss anything?
Possibly that FIA wrote the rules, and 9 other teams conformed? (Including another Red Bull owned team)

The FIA also writes the technical regulations and every single year 9 teams take the standard interpertation of them and one team finds another and is allowed to run it since it doensn't break the rules, regardless what the FIA initially thought.

The FIA are outsmarted intentionally or unintentially on a regular basis.

It's interesting you word it that way, because each season you bend the rules, you run the risk of it backfiring on you massively.

[mendis]

Just to summarize:
1. FIA announced a cost cap breach by Red Bull.
2. Red Bull believe they are well under the cost cap according to their understanding and will work with FIA to understand the matter further.
------------------------------------
3. Writers on websites and social media need to do something for a living and each one has created a fictional branch of information that can represent the area of breach.
4. So far, we have gone on with 84 pages of beating each other on this thread on the basis of above information.

Did I miss anything?

Did I miss anything?
Possibly that FIA wrote the rules, and 9 other teams conformed? (Including another Red Bull owned team)

Thanks. That goes into the point number 1.

[littlebigcat]

It's interesting you word it that way, because each season you bend the rules, you run the risk of it backfiring on you massively.

Precisely and we know teams do take this risk into consideration when they build and use those parts.