2021 Cost Cap Rumours and Speculation

[littlebigcat]

They should do quarterly budgets so we can get an in-season penalty, most corporations do quarterly, not sure how it would work in this sport.

I miss the old days when penalties were swift and effective, I recall BAR Honda over filling their fuel tanks to make weight.

The teams are required to submit a first quarter report with projected spending.

[yamahasho]

https://www.si.com/fannation/racing/f1b ... orrow-lm22

Red Bull team principal:
“What you have to remember is that the submission can constitute about 75,000 line items,”
“So, there's an enormous amount of data that has to be inputted into these submissions and I think it's only natural that, in a first year we have a set of very complicated regulations, to be able to get its arms around everything, is almost impossible. Almost impossible.”

Not impossible for 9 other teams. I hope they learn from this.

[PlatinumZealot]

So they admit culpability. The only hope now is that the punishment is severe enough to make them sweat to even get a few wins much less a third championship in a row.

[Big Tea]

So they admit culpability. The only hope now is that the punishment is severe enough to make them sweat to even get a few wins much less a third championship in a row.

What is a championship worth?

Not having a downer on them because its Red Bull, I would say the same who ever it was, but as it was the year that carried them into a very close fought championship, which in Horner's own words could be won by (probably) less than the overspend, I would like to see some sort of deterrent or it will soon become farce where the team that can pay the biggest fine makes the biggest overspend.

We should not be side tracked with this 'it was not spent on performance' if it is in the cap, it would have been spent on performance if it was not spent where it was.

We should also remember this is not this year, or last year, so what is in the pipeline?

The stinger is how can the punishment be fair yet not affect the drivers championship? This will be talked about for a decade.

Edit
I think FIA should make it clear that if any team does the same in future years championships will be docked.

[mendis]

So they admit culpability. The only hope now is that the punishment is severe enough to make them sweat to even get a few wins much less a third championship in a row.

1+ 1 = 5.

I see Red Bull team thread is going to quickly take over the now locked cost cap speculation thread.

[PlatinumZealot]

So they admit culpability. The only hope now is that the punishment is severe enough to make them sweat to even get a few wins much less a third championship in a row.

1+ 1 = 5.

I see Red Bull team thread is going to quickly take over the now locked cost cap speculation thread.

Mods should think about opening back that thread since the facts are trickling out day by day.

[djos]

So they admit culpability. The only hope now is that the punishment is severe enough to make them sweat to even get a few wins much less a third championship in a row.

Meh, as is being reported by multiple sources, it wasn't car performance related spend, it was spending on:

catering at the factory and feeding employees who were not under the cap, sick pay and redundancy issues, and how to deal with leftover spare parts at the end of the 2021 season, and their allocation to the heritage department.

It’s believed that there may also be a tax issue.

Personally, I think the reported sanctions are hard, but fair.

involve a reduction in aero testing heading into 2023

[PlatinumZealot]

So they admit culpability. The only hope now is that the punishment is severe enough to make them sweat to even get a few wins much less a third championship in a row.

Meh, as is being reported by multiple sources, it wasn't car performance related spend, it was spending on:

catering at the factory and feeding employees who were not under the cap, sick pay and redundancy issues, and how to deal with leftover spare parts at the end of the 2021 season, and their allocation to the heritage department.

It’s believed that there may also be a tax issue.

Personally, I think the reported sanctions are hard, but fair.

involve a reduction in aero testing heading into 2023

That catering thing hasn't been confirmed by official sources though.

[djos]

So they admit culpability. The only hope now is that the punishment is severe enough to make them sweat to even get a few wins much less a third championship in a row.

What is a championship worth?

Not having a downer on them because its Red Bull, I would say the same who ever it was, but as it was the year that carried them into a very close fought championship, which in Horner's own words could be won by (probably) less than the overspend, I would like to see some sort of deterrent or it will soon become farce where the team that can pay the biggest fine makes the biggest overspend.

We should not be side tracked with this 'it was not spent on performance' if it is in the cap, it would have been spent on performance if it was not spent where it was.

We should also remember this is not this year, or last year, so what is in the pipeline?

The stinger is how can the punishment be fair yet not affect the drivers championship? This will be talked about for a decade.

Edit
I think FIA should make it clear that if any team does the same in future years championships will be docked.

TBH, I think retrospective penalties are a case of "horse has bolted" - it's far better to dock future WCC Points, levy big fines that come directly out of their cost cap budget and deduct Aero development time.

In this case it wasn't car performance related, so docking WCC points would IMO be an overreach by the FIA.

[djos]

So they admit culpability. The only hope now is that the punishment is severe enough to make them sweat to even get a few wins much less a third championship in a row.

Meh, as is being reported by multiple sources, it wasn't car performance related spend, it was spending on:

catering at the factory and feeding employees who were not under the cap, sick pay and redundancy issues, and how to deal with leftover spare parts at the end of the 2021 season, and their allocation to the heritage department.

It’s believed that there may also be a tax issue.

Personally, I think the reported sanctions are hard, but fair.

involve a reduction in aero testing heading into 2023

That catering thing hasn't been confirmed by official sources though.

True, but I'd be surprised if these reports aren't accurate. Iirc, Christian Horner said as much himself at the last race.

[e30ernest]

Me and many others have stated on the other thread though that it does not matter where they overspent. There is no specific cost cap on catering for them to say they "overspent on catering". It's all part of one cost cap so the funds spent of "catering" could have also been deducted from something that gave performance to stay in the cost cap.

[djos]

Me and many others have stated on the other thread though that it does not matter where they overspent. There is no specific cost cap on catering for them to say they "overspent on catering". It's all part of one cost cap so the funds spent of "catering" could have also been deducted from something that gave performance to stay in the cost cap.

I guess we'll have to wait for the official FIA report then. The way I read this, is it isn't catering the track in question, which is in the marketing bucket, it's catering at the factory for staff.

[Big Tea]

So they admit culpability. The only hope now is that the punishment is severe enough to make them sweat to even get a few wins much less a third championship in a row.

What is a championship worth?

Not having a downer on them because its Red Bull, I would say the same who ever it was, but as it was the year that carried them into a very close fought championship, which in Horner's own words could be won by (probably) less than the overspend, I would like to see some sort of deterrent or it will soon become farce where the team that can pay the biggest fine makes the biggest overspend.

We should not be side tracked with this 'it was not spent on performance' if it is in the cap, it would have been spent on performance if it was not spent where it was.

We should also remember this is not this year, or last year, so what is in the pipeline?

The stinger is how can the punishment be fair yet not affect the drivers championship? This will be talked about for a decade.

Edit
I think FIA should make it clear that if any team does the same in future years championships will be docked.

TBH, I think retrospective penalties are a case of "horse has bolted" - it's far better to dock future WCC Points, levy big fines that come directly out of their cost cap budget and deduct Aero development time.

In this case it wasn't car performance related, so docking WCC points would IMO be an overreach by the FIA.

While I agree 'in principle', how can you value a championship gained via, what shall we say here, 'creative accounting'?
If a team will willingly spend several million on a wing that gains them 30 points over a year, what is the value of 100 points?

Once a team has a championship it is not going to be taken away (or is it?) so why not use one years development cost to cover the previous years fine? We are not going to win for the next 3 years so bank the cash we would have spent on development until we are fined in the 4th year?

Yes, I do realise it is the chicken or egg problem, and I really do not have a solution, but it cannot be worth paying fines and keeping the 'ill gotten gains' or everyone will do it.

I was in the nice position of wanting Max to win, and also wanting Hamilton to get his record, so I had not personal bias on who won and how, and to me it was one of the best seasons ever, but the rules are there for all teams to work to and if one rule is relaxed, why not others?

It was only just above the flow rate, so fine us, etc. we will still have the championship, but no chance next year as they take away development time, so we work on the 24 car.

I am glad it is not I who has to decide.

It is like a criminal (sorry RBR, not suggesting it is you) being fined in court and being allowed to keep the stuff he nicked.

[djos]

What is a championship worth?

Not having a downer on them because its Red Bull, I would say the same who ever it was, but as it was the year that carried them into a very close fought championship, which in Horner's own words could be won by (probably) less than the overspend, I would like to see some sort of deterrent or it will soon become farce where the team that can pay the biggest fine makes the biggest overspend.

We should not be side tracked with this 'it was not spent on performance' if it is in the cap, it would have been spent on performance if it was not spent where it was.

We should also remember this is not this year, or last year, so what is in the pipeline?

The stinger is how can the punishment be fair yet not affect the drivers championship? This will be talked about for a decade.

Edit
I think FIA should make it clear that if any team does the same in future years championships will be docked.

TBH, I think retrospective penalties are a case of "horse has bolted" - it's far better to dock future WCC Points, levy big fines that come directly out of their cost cap budget and deduct Aero development time.

In this case it wasn't car performance related, so docking WCC points would IMO be an overreach by the FIA.

While I agree 'in principle', how can you value a championship gained via, what shall we say here, 'creative accounting'?
If a team will willingly spend several million on a wing that gains them 30 points over a year, what is the value of 100 points?

Once a team has a championship it is not going to be taken away (or is it?) so why not use one years development cost to cover the previous years fine? We are not going to win for the next 3 years so bank the cash we would have spent on development until we are fined in the 4th year?

Yes, I do realise it is the chicken or egg problem, and I really do not have a solution, but it cannot be worth paying fines and keeping the 'ill gotten gains' or everyone will do it.

I was in the nice position of wanting Max to win, and also wanting Hamilton to get his record, so I had not personal bias on who won and how, and to me it was one of the best seasons ever, but the rules are there for all teams to work to and if one rule is relaxed, why not others?

It was only just above the flow rate, so fine us, etc. we will still have the championship, but no chance next year as they take away development time, so we work on the 24 car.

I am glad it is not I who has to decide.

It is like a criminal (sorry RBR, not suggesting it is you) being fined in court and being allowed to keep the stuff he nicked.

It's definitely not as simple problem to solve.

[hollus]

Reopened, news expected soon.
A few posts above this one were moved here from the Red Bull thread, this is a better place since we are still in speculation mode.