2021 Cost Cap Rumours and Speculation

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
Wil992
Wil992
1
Joined: 13 Mar 2017, 17:29

Re: 2021 Cost Cap Rumours and Speculation

Post

This is speculation about speculation to an extent, but bear with me.

Does any fine for a team come out of the budget cap?

What I’m thinking is that if RB are punished with reduced wind tunnel time, that presumably means their wind tunnel budget is also reduced, ie if they have their time reduced by 25%, they will save 25% of the money they would normally spend in the tunnel. That money can be spent elsewhere, which somewhat mitigates the punishment?

Unless they are forced to pay the fine from the budget cap, in which case they won’t be able to spend it elsewhere.

GrizzleBoy
GrizzleBoy
33
Joined: 05 Mar 2012, 04:06

Re: 2021 Cost Cap Rumours and Speculation

Post

How much is aero reduction effective against a team who has a man who wrote a thesis for ground effect in university and likely knows much of what needs to be known already?

fourmula1
fourmula1
0
Joined: 16 Nov 2021, 23:22

Re: 2021 Cost Cap Rumours and Speculation

Post

I see no situation where the fine or punishment handed out will REALLY upset RB. As long as the delivery and communication of the result doesn't hurt their image they don't care. 2x champions, they would pay 250m over and over to keep winning, any of the top 3 teams would.

User avatar
chrisc90
41
Joined: 23 Feb 2022, 21:22

Re: 2021 Cost Cap Rumours and Speculation

Post


Sofa King
Sofa King
0
Joined: 18 Mar 2022, 15:15

Re: 2021 Cost Cap Rumours and Speculation

Post

They don’t need to develop the car at all for next year and still will be well ahead. What’s the hit if it’s not points in 2021 when the penalty occurred. Exceeding the cost cap has to result in a performance advantage, by definition, or there is no point to the cap. The performance advantage will make it worth to other teams to breach the cap

LM10
LM10
121
Joined: 07 Mar 2018, 00:07

Re: 2021 Cost Cap Rumours and Speculation

Post

chrisc90 wrote:
28 Oct 2022, 16:02
Ridiculous penalty which won’t hurt them in any way. Now let the budget cap breaches all across the grid begin.
Last edited by LM10 on 28 Oct 2022, 16:13, edited 1 time in total.

fourmula1
fourmula1
0
Joined: 16 Nov 2021, 23:22

Re: 2021 Cost Cap Rumours and Speculation

Post

The fine is weak as hell. They would piss away 10x that any day for a few KM in straight line speed over a competitor, or a tenth in lap time, whatever metric you want to use.

User avatar
Wouter
111
Joined: 16 Dec 2017, 13:02

Re: 2021 Cost Cap Rumours and Speculation

Post

Following the submission of all required documentation by all ten Formula One Teams, the Cost Cap Administration carried out the first ever Review process under the FIA Formula One World Championship Financial Regulations. These new Financial Regulations are a very complex set of rules that competitors were required to adapt to for the first time.

Red Bull Racing was found to be in breach, however, the Cost Cap Administration recognised that Red Bull Racing has acted cooperatively throughout the review process and has sought to provide additional information and evidence when requested in a timely manner, that this is the first year of the full application of the Financial Regulations and that there is no accusation or evidence that RBR has sought at any time to act in bad faith, dishonestly or in fraudulent manner, nor has it wilfully concealed any information from the Cost Cap Administration.

In these circumstances, the Cost Cap Administration offered to RBR an ABA to resolve this matter. That offer was accepted by RBR.

An Accepted Breach Agreement (“ABA”) dated 26 October 2022 was therefore entered into by and between the Cost Cap Administration and Red Bull Racing pursuant to Article 6.28 of the FIA Formula 1 Financial Regulations (“Financial Regulations”). A link to a summary of the terms of the ABA as provided for by Article 6.32 of the Financial Regulations is below.
.
https://www.fia.com/news/accepted-breac ... ormula-one
The Power of Dreams!

Incognito
Incognito
0
Joined: 18 Jul 2021, 18:06

Re: 2021 Cost Cap Rumours and Speculation

Post

So, cheating confirmed.

And there's no downside, also confirmed. Just cheat your way to as many Championships as possible and, if you get caught then it doesn't matter.

To quote Binotto "For us, four million represents the development parts for an entire season." So even if we ignore the 'tax credit', that's still 10% more car development than their rivals. When you consider how much time a car gains throughout an entire season, an extra 10% of that...

User avatar
chrisc90
41
Joined: 23 Feb 2022, 21:22

Re: 2021 Cost Cap Rumours and Speculation

Post

10% reduction in development for a 0.37% overspend.

Fairly hefty

User avatar
dans79
267
Joined: 03 Mar 2013, 19:33
Location: USA

Re: 2021 Cost Cap Rumours and Speculation

Post

201 105 104 9 9 7

Tiny73
Tiny73
0
Joined: 05 Dec 2016, 23:48

Re: 2021 Cost Cap Rumours and Speculation

Post

chrisc90 wrote:
28 Oct 2022, 16:16
10% reduction in development for a 0.37% overspend.

Fairly hefty
It wasn’t a 0.37% overspend. If the tax credit had been applied it would’ve been. But it wasn’t. So it was a $1.8m overspend. Which bought them two championships and likely more considering the rules in place for the next years.
Last edited by turbof1 on 02 Nov 2022, 23:28, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: removed the personal part.

User avatar
dans79
267
Joined: 03 Mar 2013, 19:33
Location: USA

Re: 2021 Cost Cap Rumours and Speculation

Post

this is the part that's really going to hurt, the aero penalty starts now.
RBR receives a Minor Sporting Penalty in the form of a limitation of RBR’s ability to conduct
aerodynamic Testing during a period of 12 months from the date of execution of the ABA
through the application of a reduction of 10% of the Coefficient C used to calculate the
individual Restricted Wind Tunnel Testing (RWTT) and Restricted Computational Fluid
Dynamics (RCFD) limits applicable to each Team as set out in Article 6 of Appendix 7 to the
FIA Formula 1 Sporting Regulations. For example, if the Coefficient C, based on RBR’s
championship position is 70%, the effective new value of C will be: CNEW=70% x (1-0.10) =
63.0%; and
201 105 104 9 9 7

Mosin123
Mosin123
0
Joined: 11 Oct 2022, 17:03

Re: 2021 Cost Cap Rumours and Speculation

Post

chrisc90 wrote:
28 Oct 2022, 16:16
10% reduction in development for a 0.37% overspend.

Fairly hefty
so more than enough to decide a championship, if we use Horners own words (200k?). but the report said they breached it by £1,864,000 (i.e., 1.6%). the 0.37% figure is what they would still be over if they had got the tax credits they didnt get.

Tiny73
Tiny73
0
Joined: 05 Dec 2016, 23:48

Re: 2021 Cost Cap Rumours and Speculation

Post

dans79 wrote:
28 Oct 2022, 16:21
this is the part that's really going to hurt, the aero penalty starts now.
RBR receives a Minor Sporting Penalty in the form of a limitation of RBR’s ability to conduct
aerodynamic Testing during a period of 12 months from the date of execution of the ABA
through the application of a reduction of 10% of the Coefficient C used to calculate the
individual Restricted Wind Tunnel Testing (RWTT) and Restricted Computational Fluid
Dynamics (RCFD) limits applicable to each Team as set out in Article 6 of Appendix 7 to the
FIA Formula 1 Sporting Regulations. For example, if the Coefficient C, based on RBR’s
championship position is 70%, the effective new value of C will be: CNEW=70% x (1-0.10) =
63.0%; and
Whilst it’s better than nothing I don’t think this goes anywhere near far enough to penalise the benefit of the overspend nor the multi-year advantage it’s likely given them. Can see a few other teams breaching the cap if this is the extent of the “punishment”.
Last edited by Tiny73 on 28 Oct 2022, 16:24, edited 1 time in total.