2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[PlatinumZealot]

I'm not sure Toto knows the meaning of "aggressive". Surely that would have been a long stint on either C3 or C4.

Russell was quite smart today on the radio, but Merc nerfed his strategy call for some reason. If Ricciardo's race was anything to go buy, Russell was on the money strat wise.

The data showed a drop off on the mediums was why they were scared of being aggressive. I don't think they would have gotten anything better. Even against Perez.

Not sure what data you are talking about. Here is George's first stint. He could have gone another 10 laps on the basis of that stint data. Nobody was really experiencing tyre deg across the field.

Code: Select all

 1:23.760
 1:23.656
 1:23.549
 1:23.266
 1:23.549
 1:23.220
 1:23.481
 1:23.654
 1:23.487
 1:23.327
 1:23.420
 1:23.273
 1:23.413
 1:23.239
 1:23.155
 1:23.465
 1:23.316
 1:23.457
 1:23.645
 1:23.415
 1:23.769
 1:23.602
 1:23.460
 1:23.499
 1:23.227
 1:23.233
 1:23.052
 1:22.934
 NaT
 1:23.056
 1:23.275
 1:23.269

Bonno reported to Lewis that they saw a drop off on the medium.

[AR3-GP]

The data showed a drop off on the mediums was why they were scared of being aggressive. I don't think they would have gotten anything better. Even against Perez.

Not sure what data you are talking about. Here is George's first stint. He could have gone another 10 laps on the basis of that stint data. Nobody was really experiencing tyre deg across the field.

Code: Select all

 1:23.760
 1:23.656
 1:23.549
 1:23.266
 1:23.549
 1:23.220
 1:23.481
 1:23.654
 1:23.487
 1:23.327
 1:23.420
 1:23.273
 1:23.413
 1:23.239
 1:23.155
 1:23.465
 1:23.316
 1:23.457
 1:23.645
 1:23.415
 1:23.769
 1:23.602
 1:23.460
 1:23.499
 1:23.227
 1:23.233
 1:23.052
 1:22.934
 NaT
 1:23.056
 1:23.275
 1:23.269

Bonno reported to Lewis that they saw a drop off on the medium.

Lewis told Bono that his tires were fine. They even had Lewis's tires in the pitlane to check the wear which would have presumably have shown little wear considering RB's message to Verstappen about his softs that came off looking absolutely fine.

In my opinion, George getting denied has more to do with not wanting to hand him a strat advantage after they already screwed up Lewis's race.

[organic]

The data showed a drop off on the mediums was why they were scared of being aggressive. I don't think they would have gotten anything better. Even against Perez.

Not sure what data you are talking about. Here is George's first stint. He could have gone another 10 laps on the basis of that stint data. Nobody was really experiencing tyre deg across the field.

Code: Select all

 1:23.760
 1:23.656
 1:23.549
 1:23.266
 1:23.549
 1:23.220
 1:23.481
 1:23.654
 1:23.487
 1:23.327
 1:23.420
 1:23.273
 1:23.413
 1:23.239
 1:23.155
 1:23.465
 1:23.316
 1:23.457
 1:23.645
 1:23.415
 1:23.769
 1:23.602
 1:23.460
 1:23.499
 1:23.227
 1:23.233
 1:23.052
 1:22.934
 NaT
 1:23.056
 1:23.275
 1:23.269

Bonno reported to Lewis that they saw a drop off on the medium.

And lewis was telling Bono towards the end of his medium stint that the mediums still felt good! Lewis has said post-race he didn't want to come in so early, but understood they were covering checo to not lose track position. Nothing about a drop-off in medium tyre performance and there isn't any data available to back up a medium tyre drop-off either. The Merc engineers were feeding the drivers all kinds of stories to keep them motivated yesterday so I don't put much weight into what they said over the radio to Lewis.

Merc panicked when checo was undercutting them and didn't commit to the medium-soft strategy which became possible when the deg was so low. They could've seen from how well soft runners were doing eg vettel, Verstappen to see the low deg; Pirelli and Merc (according to Toto) predicted the softs would last 15-18 laps before dropping off but the laptimes for soft runners kept improving despite 25 laps on them.

Just once again shows strategic flat-footedness

[dans79]

And lewis was telling Bono towards the end of his medium stint that the mediums still felt good! Lewis has said post-race he didn't want to come in so early, but understood they were covering checo to not lose track position.

Merc panicked when checo was undercutting them and didn't commit to the medium-soft strategy which became possible when the deg was so low. They could've seen from how well soft runners were doing eg vettel, Verstappen to see the low deg; Pirelli and Merc predicted the softs would last 15-18 laps before dropping off but the laptimes for soft runners kept improving despite 25 laps on them.

Strategic flat-footedness

I was personally thinking Merc would extend the first stint into the high 30's mid 40's lap count range.


Considering they are locked into P3 in the constrictors championship, you would think they would play around with strategies more.

[Big Tea]

Maybe the advantage in points is less than the advantage in time allowance if they stay behind Ferrari? Then again, Maybe Ferrari had the same idea.

On school sports days there was usually a 'slow bike race' in which the one who crossed the line last won. Are we about to see the F1 equivalent?

[organic]

Maybe the advantage in points is less than the advantage in time allowance if they stay behind Ferrari? Then again, Maybe Ferrari had the same idea.

On school sports days there was usually a 'slow bike race' in which the one who crossed the line last won. Are we about to see the F1 equivalent?

The Merc brand image, lewis' win record and the morale boost that would benefit from getting a win all outweigh 5% extra wind tunnel time imo. Also I would assume in the concorde agreement they agreed to never deliberately sandbag races to try to get a lower championship place for extra cfd etc; I assume this anyway, pure conjecture but seems required for a sliding scale of development as we have, otherwise you could have some silly scenes in F1

[dans79]

The Merc brand image, lewis' win record and the morale boost that would benefit from getting a win all outweigh 5% extra wind tunnel time imo.

Maybe, but if it puts them at the front next year, its a much better long term investment. 1 win vs a WDC & WCC.

[AR3-GP]

The idea that a team sandbags in the constructors for more windtunnel time only works in theory. Drivers have a bad habit of doing the best that they can .

[Big Tea]

The idea that a team sandbags in the constructors for more windtunnel time only works in theory. Drivers have a bad habit of doing the best that they can .

Unless they get knobbled by tyre calls?

[organic]

The Merc brand image, lewis' win record and the morale boost that would benefit from getting a win all outweigh 5% extra wind tunnel time imo.

Maybe, but if it puts them at the front next year, its a much better long term investment. 1 win vs a WDC & WCC.

I just don't think a team could function like that.

It's a better long-term investment in football to not use your legs in football if you go down 3-0 or rugby 50-0 and simply let the other team score at will, saving your legs for the next game in the competition. It's the smartest thing, but there are no examples of teams that do it

ultimately it's sport and it would require cooperation of a number of individuals all to agree to self-sabotage. It's just difficult to organize something like that

[TNTHead]

.... but not entirely impossible.
When theres not much to win from now on it might be that 2nd place is the least attractive position. Although it's far fetched and a bit conspiracy like.

[DGP123]

Mercedes will be full throttle until the last lap in AD. George is desperate to beat Lewis, and Lewis wants that win, for this record. No worries on there side. Ferrari on the other hand……

[PlatinumZealot]

Not sure what data you are talking about. Here is George's first stint. He could have gone another 10 laps on the basis of that stint data. Nobody was really experiencing tyre deg across the field.

Code: Select all

 1:23.760
 1:23.656
 1:23.549
 1:23.266
 1:23.549
 1:23.220
 1:23.481
 1:23.654
 1:23.487
 1:23.327
 1:23.420
 1:23.273
 1:23.413
 1:23.239
 1:23.155
 1:23.465
 1:23.316
 1:23.457
 1:23.645
 1:23.415
 1:23.769
 1:23.602
 1:23.460
 1:23.499
 1:23.227
 1:23.233
 1:23.052
 1:22.934
 NaT
 1:23.056
 1:23.275
 1:23.269

Bonno reported to Lewis that they saw a drop off on the medium.

Lewis told Bono that his tires were fine. They even had Lewis's tires in the pitlane to check the wear which would have presumably have shown little wear considering RB's message to Verstappen about his softs that came off looking absolutely fine.

In my opinion, George getting denied has more to do with not wanting to hand him a strat advantage after they already screwed up Lewis's race.

Immediately after getting the hard tyres Lewis asked Bonno why did qe change to hard, and Bonna replied that they saw a drop-off at the end of the medium stint.
Meaning that they expected Max's mediums to drop-off too. Unfortunately no such thing happened to the RedBull.

[organic]

Bonno reported to Lewis that they saw a drop off on the medium.

Lewis told Bono that his tires were fine. They even had Lewis's tires in the pitlane to check the wear which would have presumably have shown little wear considering RB's message to Verstappen about his softs that came off looking absolutely fine.

In my opinion, George getting denied has more to do with not wanting to hand him a strat advantage after they already screwed up Lewis's race.

Immediately after getting the hard tyres Lewis asked Bonno why did qe change to hard, and Bonna replied that they saw a drop-off at the end of the medium stint.
Meaning that they expected Max's mediums to drop-off too. Unfortunately no such thing happened to the RedBull.

The data doesn't support what Bono said though.. and George took his tyres further than Hamilton and also didn't have any degradation despite worse tyre management than lewis. George did more laps than lewis and thought the tyres were alive enough to fight for a long stint onto the soft tyre!

They did what Ferrari did at Hungary. Started on the medium tyre to verstappen's and russell's soft, but covered off the soft runners anyway because they panicked about the undercut.

[f1jcw]

Bonno reported to Lewis that they saw a drop off on the medium.

Lewis told Bono that his tires were fine. They even had Lewis's tires in the pitlane to check the wear which would have presumably have shown little wear considering RB's message to Verstappen about his softs that came off looking absolutely fine.

In my opinion, George getting denied has more to do with not wanting to hand him a strat advantage after they already screwed up Lewis's race.

Immediately after getting the hard tyres Lewis asked Bonno why did qe change to hard, and Bonna replied that they saw a drop-off at the end of the medium stint.
Meaning that they expected Max's mediums to drop-off too. Unfortunately no such thing happened to the RedBull.

Too many times this year and last they start on the longer wearing tyres, still have good pace on them and then switch early.
I just don’t get it. They might as well have started on softs this weekend.