2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[Tvetovnato]

It always blows my mind how fast people are swinging in terms of performance assessment.

After the first few races Hamilton needed to retire since he was thrashed by Russell. After that, Russell was overrated since Hamilton started beating him and Russell was no longer the right choice for Mercedes as Hamilton’s successor. And now Russell won and Hamilton’s legacy might be at risk yet again.

On balance, Hamilton has been the quicker of the two drivers this season, winning the qualifying battle and it’s still close in head to head regarding races, even when not factoring in Hamilton’s bad luck with safety cars on numerous occasions which Russell benefitted from in all of those cases.

AMuS is now reporting that Hamilton indeed had floor damage worth 0.2 seconds in Brazil after Verstappens deliberate take-out attempt. Without that, he would most likely have been in Russell’s DRS zone in the last few laps, and the race would likely have turned out quite differently. None of these conversations would then even take place.

With Russell he has a proper fight on his hands, but will most likely prevail as he always has over time against his team mates. His team mate battles are actually what sets him apart from many other great drivers in the sense that he has had some very good ones, two world champions which he beat on balance, and a third one if you count Rosberg. That’s more than someone like Schumacher for example who will always have the contracted no 2 driver asterix with his records. Fighting your team mate on equal grounds will always serve your sporting legacy extremely well as long as you come out on top more often than not. And that is what Hamilton is doing.

[DGP123]

It always blows my mind how fast people are swinging in terms of performance assessment.

After the first few races Hamilton needed to retire since he was thrashed by Russell. After that, Russell was overrated since Hamilton started beating him and Russell was no longer the right choice for Mercedes as Hamilton’s successor. And now Russell won and Hamilton’s legacy might be at risk yet again.

On balance, Hamilton has been the quicker of the two drivers this season, winning the qualifying battle and it’s still close in head to head regarding races, even when not factoring in Hamilton’s bad luck with safety cars on numerous occasions which Russell benefitted from in all of those cases.

AMuS is now reporting that Hamilton indeed had floor damage worth 0.2 seconds in Brazil after Verstappens deliberate take-out attempt. Without that, he would most likely have been in Russell’s DRS zone in the last few laps, and the race would likely have turned out quite differently. None of these conversations would then even take place.

With Russell he has a proper fight on his hands, but will most likely prevail as he always has over time against his team mates. His team mate battles are actually what sets him apart from many other great drivers in the sense that he has had some very good ones, two world champions which he beat on balance, and a third one if you count Rosberg. That’s more than someone like Schumacher for example who will always have the contracted no 2 driver asterix with his records. Fighting your team mate on equal grounds will always serve your sporting legacy extremely well as long as you come out on top more often than not. And that is what Hamilton is doing.

Spot on

but most of it will be ignored or rejected

[RonMexico]

It always blows my mind how fast people are swinging in terms of performance assessment.

After the first few races Hamilton needed to retire since he was thrashed by Russell. After that, Russell was overrated since Hamilton started beating him and Russell was no longer the right choice for Mercedes as Hamilton’s successor. And now Russell won and Hamilton’s legacy might be at risk yet again.

On balance, Hamilton has been the quicker of the two drivers this season, winning the qualifying battle and it’s still close in head to head regarding races, even when not factoring in Hamilton’s bad luck with safety cars on numerous occasions which Russell benefitted from in all of those cases.

AMuS is now reporting that Hamilton indeed had floor damage worth 0.2 seconds in Brazil after Verstappens deliberate take-out attempt. Without that, he would most likely have been in Russell’s DRS zone in the last few laps, and the race would likely have turned out quite differently. None of these conversations would then even take place.

With Russell he has a proper fight on his hands, but will most likely prevail as he always has over time against his team mates. His team mate battles are actually what sets him apart from many other great drivers in the sense that he has had some very good ones, two world champions which he beat on balance, and a third one if you count Rosberg. That’s more than someone like Schumacher for example who will always have the contracted no 2 driver asterix with his records. Fighting your team mate on equal grounds will always serve your sporting legacy extremely well as long as you come out on top more often than not. And that is what Hamilton is doing.

This will be the third teammate he will have lost to and lost a championship to one of them. Another he only beat on countback.

If he loses to Russell again next year then I think a lot more spotlight will be placed upon the chariots he piloted when winning the championships with Mercedes.

[f1jcw]

If he loses to Russell again next year then I think a lot more spotlight will be placed upon the chariots he piloted when winning the championships with Mercedes.

Only by people who's opinions don't matter. Atleast they was won fairly.

[chrisc90]

Given we can all say that lewis was 'developing' the car pre-spa, Lets look at the points post spa.

Lewis has scored 88 points and George has scored 99 points.

[dans79]

Given we can all say that lewis was 'developing' the car pre-spa, Lets look at the points post spa.

Lewis has scored 88 points and George has scored 99 points.

and 8 of the 11 point difference, was from the last race where Lewis was handicapped by a compromised qualifying thanks to George, and a compromised race + damage thanks to Max.

I won't even mention the team blunder in Zandvoort!

[DGP123]

Given we can all say that lewis was 'developing' the car pre-spa, Lets look at the points post spa.

Lewis has scored 88 points and George has scored 99 points.

Here we go. That DNF at Spa plays into GR’s hands, and he got +12 pts just from that. Hamilton likely would of beaten GR there. The following race at Zandvoort, Hamilton was in contention to win that race, or come 2nd. Russell was absolutely nowhere and would of been comfortably beaten by Hamilton. Because of the SC intervention, Russell got new tyres, and Hamilton did not, and once again, it resulted in a gift for Russell and a highly undeserved second place.

We go on. Monza was next. A whole heap of engine penalties and Hamilton started from the back. Russell gifted an easy podium. Hamilton then beat Russell in the next four races. Then Russell beat Hamilton in Brazil.

The stats don’t reflect what’s happened whatsoever, only in the minds of anti-Hamilton fans such as yourself.

You will ignore all this, but anyway.

[mendis]

Given we can all say that lewis was 'developing' the car pre-spa, Lets look at the points post spa.

Lewis has scored 88 points and George has scored 99 points.

Here we go. That DNF at Spa plays into GR’s hands, and he got +12 pts just from that. Hamilton likely would of beaten GR there. The following race at Zandvoort, Hamilton was in contention to win that race, or come 2nd. Russell was absolutely nowhere and would of been comfortably beaten by Hamilton. Because of the SC intervention, Russell got new tyres, and Hamilton did not, and once again, it resulted in a gift for Russell and a highly undeserved second place.

We go on. Monza was next. A whole heap of engine penalties and Hamilton started from the back. Russell gifted an easy podium. Hamilton then beat Russell in the next four races. Then Russell beat Hamilton in Brazil.

The stats don’t reflect what’s happened whatsoever, only in the minds of anti-Hamilton fans such as yourself.

You will ignore all this, but anyway.

DNF was Lewis' mistake. Without that silly mistake, he could have avoided engine penalty in Monza. It's a moot point for the argument. Zandvoort was an inspired driver decision, Lewis not making one himself reflects poorly on him. If one uses your line of argument, then one can call George was unlucky for the DNF in Silverstone. He was unlucky for trying something brave in Canada qualifying that didn't come through when he was clearly the faster Mercedes in that weekend, which then allowed Lewis to get a good result. The problem with most Lewis fans is, they only pay attention to Lewis' side of the argument.

[AR3-GP]

Given we can all say that lewis was 'developing' the car pre-spa, Lets look at the points post spa.

Lewis has scored 88 points and George has scored 99 points.

Here we go. That DNF at Spa plays into GR’s hands, and he got +12 pts just from that. Hamilton likely would of beaten GR there. The following race at Zandvoort, Hamilton was in contention to win that race, or come 2nd. Russell was absolutely nowhere and would of been comfortably beaten by Hamilton. Because of the SC intervention, Russell got new tyres, and Hamilton did not, and once again, it resulted in a gift for Russell and a highly undeserved second place.

We go on. Monza was next. A whole heap of engine penalties and Hamilton started from the back. Russell gifted an easy podium. Hamilton then beat Russell in the next four races. Then Russell beat Hamilton in Brazil.

The stats don’t reflect what’s happened whatsoever, only in the minds of anti-Hamilton fans such as yourself.

You will ignore all this, but anyway.

DNF was Lewis' mistake. Without that silly mistake, he could have avoided engine penalty in Monza. It's a moot point for the argument. Zandvoort was an inspired driver decision, Lewis not making one himself reflects poorly on him.

I agree but Lewis has little to be ashamed about so it's nothing to worry about for him in the long run.

[chrisc90]

Given we can all say that lewis was 'developing' the car pre-spa, Lets look at the points post spa.

Lewis has scored 88 points and George has scored 99 points.

Here we go. That DNF at Spa plays into GR’s hands, and he got +12 pts just from that. Hamilton likely would of beaten GR there. The following race at Zandvoort, Hamilton was in contention to win that race, or come 2nd. Russell was absolutely nowhere and would of been comfortably beaten by Hamilton. Because of the SC intervention, Russell got new tyres, and Hamilton did not, and once again, it resulted in a gift for Russell and a highly undeserved second place.

We go on. Monza was next. A whole heap of engine penalties and Hamilton started from the back. Russell gifted an easy podium. Hamilton then beat Russell in the next four races. Then Russell beat Hamilton in Brazil.

The stats don’t reflect what’s happened whatsoever, only in the minds of anti-Hamilton fans such as yourself.

You will ignore all this, but anyway.

Why was Georges points in Zandvoort undeserved? Unfortunately safety cars do happen and its a fact of racing. What matters is that you need to be reactive in a very short amount of time to make the most of it. Lewis (or the team) made the mess up of not pitting for fresh tyres - something every other team managed to call right. Even George made the call for Softs (against the will of the team) and made progress from it. You cant say his points were undeserved at all in that case.

Dont forget that the DNF that Lewis had, George was also in a race where he didnt score any points (Singapore).

Not sure why you are calling my post out for being anti-hamilton, apart from the reason to troll people and add insults to your post. Bit un-necessary dont you think?

[Tvetovnato]

It always blows my mind how fast people are swinging in terms of performance assessment.

After the first few races Hamilton needed to retire since he was thrashed by Russell. After that, Russell was overrated since Hamilton started beating him and Russell was no longer the right choice for Mercedes as Hamilton’s successor. And now Russell won and Hamilton’s legacy might be at risk yet again.

On balance, Hamilton has been the quicker of the two drivers this season, winning the qualifying battle and it’s still close in head to head regarding races, even when not factoring in Hamilton’s bad luck with safety cars on numerous occasions which Russell benefitted from in all of those cases.

AMuS is now reporting that Hamilton indeed had floor damage worth 0.2 seconds in Brazil after Verstappens deliberate take-out attempt. Without that, he would most likely have been in Russell’s DRS zone in the last few laps, and the race would likely have turned out quite differently. None of these conversations would then even take place.

With Russell he has a proper fight on his hands, but will most likely prevail as he always has over time against his team mates. His team mate battles are actually what sets him apart from many other great drivers in the sense that he has had some very good ones, two world champions which he beat on balance, and a third one if you count Rosberg. That’s more than someone like Schumacher for example who will always have the contracted no 2 driver asterix with his records. Fighting your team mate on equal grounds will always serve your sporting legacy extremely well as long as you come out on top more often than not. And that is what Hamilton is doing.

This will be the third teammate he will have lost to and lost a championship to one of them. Another he only beat on countback.

If he loses to Russell again next year then I think a lot more spotlight will be placed upon the chariots he piloted when winning the championships with Mercedes.

It’s a matter of you frame things right?

Framing it like he ”lost” to three team mates is true, but it’s also true that two of those team mates he beat more often than he lost to them, i.e he was better over time. The third one we don’t even know about yet.

Saying he ”only won on countback” to Alonso is extremely misleading since you are happily ignoring the fact that Hamilton was a ROOKIE and beat a two time champion at the top of his game. That season alone showed his pedigree more than any other season IMO.

Again, losing to other great drivers is not bad for your legacy as long as you win more than you lose. It’s the same in all sports. The all time greats will always have lost every once in a while to other greats. Federer will have lost to Nadal, Real Madrid will have lost to FC Barcelona, Tiger Woods to Phil Mickelson (maybe, I don’t know golf). But the point is that it will happen, and those individuals or teams will still be considered all time greats. It’s how you sustain the performance over time that shows your qualities.

[AR3-GP]

It always blows my mind how fast people are swinging in terms of performance assessment.

After the first few races Hamilton needed to retire since he was thrashed by Russell. After that, Russell was overrated since Hamilton started beating him and Russell was no longer the right choice for Mercedes as Hamilton’s successor. And now Russell won and Hamilton’s legacy might be at risk yet again.

On balance, Hamilton has been the quicker of the two drivers this season, winning the qualifying battle and it’s still close in head to head regarding races, even when not factoring in Hamilton’s bad luck with safety cars on numerous occasions which Russell benefitted from in all of those cases.

AMuS is now reporting that Hamilton indeed had floor damage worth 0.2 seconds in Brazil after Verstappens deliberate take-out attempt. Without that, he would most likely have been in Russell’s DRS zone in the last few laps, and the race would likely have turned out quite differently. None of these conversations would then even take place.

With Russell he has a proper fight on his hands, but will most likely prevail as he always has over time against his team mates. His team mate battles are actually what sets him apart from many other great drivers in the sense that he has had some very good ones, two world champions which he beat on balance, and a third one if you count Rosberg. That’s more than someone like Schumacher for example who will always have the contracted no 2 driver asterix with his records. Fighting your team mate on equal grounds will always serve your sporting legacy extremely well as long as you come out on top more often than not. And that is what Hamilton is doing.

This will be the third teammate he will have lost to and lost a championship to one of them. Another he only beat on countback.

If he loses to Russell again next year then I think a lot more spotlight will be placed upon the chariots he piloted when winning the championships with Mercedes.

[harty71]

Given we can all say that lewis was 'developing' the car pre-spa, Lets look at the points post spa.

Lewis has scored 88 points and George has scored 99 points.

Here we go. That DNF at Spa plays into GR’s hands, and he got +12 pts just from that. Hamilton likely would of beaten GR there. The following race at Zandvoort, Hamilton was in contention to win that race, or come 2nd. Russell was absolutely nowhere and would of been comfortably beaten by Hamilton. Because of the SC intervention, Russell got new tyres, and Hamilton did not, and once again, it resulted in a gift for Russell and a highly undeserved second place.

We go on. Monza was next. A whole heap of engine penalties and Hamilton started from the back. Russell gifted an easy podium. Hamilton then beat Russell in the next four races. Then Russell beat Hamilton in Brazil.

The stats don’t reflect what’s happened whatsoever, only in the minds of anti-Hamilton fans such as yourself.

You will ignore all this, but anyway.

And, your point is?

A driver doesn't get a free pass for making mistakes, they still matter in the context of things.

The facts are this mythical epic second half of the season just hasn't happened as the points tally shows.

[Tvetovnato]

Given we can all say that lewis was 'developing' the car pre-spa, Lets look at the points post spa.

Lewis has scored 88 points and George has scored 99 points.

Here we go. That DNF at Spa plays into GR’s hands, and he got +12 pts just from that. Hamilton likely would of beaten GR there. The following race at Zandvoort, Hamilton was in contention to win that race, or come 2nd. Russell was absolutely nowhere and would of been comfortably beaten by Hamilton. Because of the SC intervention, Russell got new tyres, and Hamilton did not, and once again, it resulted in a gift for Russell and a highly undeserved second place.

We go on. Monza was next. A whole heap of engine penalties and Hamilton started from the back. Russell gifted an easy podium. Hamilton then beat Russell in the next four races. Then Russell beat Hamilton in Brazil.

The stats don’t reflect what’s happened whatsoever, only in the minds of anti-Hamilton fans such as yourself.

You will ignore all this, but anyway.

Why was Georges points in Zandvoort undeserved? Unfortunately safety cars do happen and its a fact of racing. What matters is that you need to be reactive in a very short amount of time to make the most of it. Lewis (or the team) made the mess up of not pitting for fresh tyres - something every other team managed to call right. Even George made the call for Softs (against the will of the team) and made progress from it. You cant say his points were undeserved at all in that case.

Dont forget that the DNF that Lewis had, George was also in a race where he didnt score any points (Singapore).

Not sure why you are calling my post out for being anti-hamilton, apart from the reason to troll people and add insults to your post. Bit un-necessary dont you think?

You are ignoring quite a lot of factors with the SCs, when the they occured, what the respective track positions were, where Lewis was at the time they happened, how much he had to lose when pitting, how little George had to lose by pitting, etc. They could and would have pitted Lewis for new softs at Zandvoort if their only concern was being ahead of George in that race, but they were not. They were concerned about winning the race, and ceeding track position to the Red Bull at that stage would give them 0% chance to win the race, while having him staying out gave them 1 % chance of winning the race. Giving George credit for that whole thing is 100% wrong, but an easy argument for anti-Hamiltoners to go all in on since it fits their agenda.

[dans79]

Here we go. That DNF at Spa plays into GR’s hands, and he got +12 pts just from that. Hamilton likely would of beaten GR there. The following race at Zandvoort, Hamilton was in contention to win that race, or come 2nd. Russell was absolutely nowhere and would of been comfortably beaten by Hamilton. Because of the SC intervention, Russell got new tyres, and Hamilton did not, and once again, it resulted in a gift for Russell and a highly undeserved second place.

We go on. Monza was next. A whole heap of engine penalties and Hamilton started from the back. Russell gifted an easy podium. Hamilton then beat Russell in the next four races. Then Russell beat Hamilton in Brazil.

The stats don’t reflect what’s happened whatsoever, only in the minds of anti-Hamilton fans such as yourself.

You will ignore all this, but anyway.

Why was Georges points in Zandvoort undeserved? Unfortunately safety cars do happen and its a fact of racing. What matters is that you need to be reactive in a very short amount of time to make the most of it. Lewis (or the team) made the mess up of not pitting for fresh tyres - something every other team managed to call right. Even George made the call for Softs (against the will of the team) and made progress from it. You cant say his points were undeserved at all in that case.

Dont forget that the DNF that Lewis had, George was also in a race where he didnt score any points (Singapore).

Not sure why you are calling my post out for being anti-hamilton, apart from the reason to troll people and add insults to your post. Bit un-necessary dont you think?

You are ignoring quite a lot of factors with the SCs, when the they occured, what the respective track positions were, where Lewis was at the time they happened, how much he had to lose when pitting, how little George had to lose by pitting, etc. They could and would have pitted Lewis for new softs at Zandvoort if their only concern was being ahead of George in that race, but they were not. They were concerned about winning the race, and ceeding track position to the Red Bull at that stage would give them 0% chance to win the race, while having him staying out gave them 1 % chance of winning the race. Giving George credit for that whole thing is 100% wrong, but an easy argument for anti-Hamiltoners to go all in on since it fits their agenda.

Not to mention it was a decision made by one side of the garage, not as a team. Hence why Lewis came on the radio seconds after George pulled into the box and asked why did you pit him, and bonno responded i don't know.

If the team would have done their job properly, They would have had George back Max up to give Lewis enough of a gap to pit and still come out p1. That would have put Lewis on the same tire as Max, with George between them as a buffer, That would have been the best chance of winning!