General Honda F1 Topic

[Juzh]

u're nuts, i cant count how many times honda personnel were on podium or how many times rb thanked honda in past couple of years, but yeah, by all means, keep living in your dream world

you talking about gestures ,lip service what i expect from redbull is something tangible and more substance like big clear honda emblem on their car or japanese driver.Honda spent more on pu than Rbr on car so they earned the right to be visible.even the media only talk about efficient Rbr so Honda is not getting the recognition it deserve so the came to the realisation that the so do their own thing ,i sure that not good news for red bull fans.

Liveries, sponsor placement, and so on is all negotiated in contracts before a season begins. It doesn't matter if you think Red Bull should put Honda logos on the car for free or if you think that the drivers and team should skip all the press events with their other sponsors in order to do Honda promotion for free. That's not how this works. These are for profit businesses. Red Bull didn't use the Honda name this season, because Honda didn't want them to. Do you recall that Honda pulled out?

Your confusion stems from your first post. Your belief that "redbull should just do their own thing and live other car manufacture alone they never being too keen to share credits with anyone when they are winning".

In 2021 RB put honda on their RW for free.

[AR3-GP]

you talking about gestures ,lip service what i expect from redbull is something tangible and more substance like big clear honda emblem on their car or japanese driver.Honda spent more on pu than Rbr on car so they earned the right to be visible.even the media only talk about efficient Rbr so Honda is not getting the recognition it deserve so the came to the realisation that the so do their own thing ,i sure that not good news for red bull fans.

Liveries, sponsor placement, and so on is all negotiated in contracts before a season begins. It doesn't matter if you think Red Bull should put Honda logos on the car for free or if you think that the drivers and team should skip all the press events with their other sponsors in order to do Honda promotion for free. That's not how this works. These are for profit businesses. Red Bull didn't use the Honda name this season, because Honda didn't want them to. Do you recall that Honda pulled out?

Your confusion stems from your first post. Your belief that "redbull should just do their own thing and live other car manufacture alone they never being too keen to share credits with anyone when they are winning".

In 2021 RB put honda on their RW for free.

"Free"? Honda was paying every last cent for the entire PU program in 2021 whereas from the start of 2022, RB was paying Honda for it's services and support of the "RBPT" PU.

[JordanMugen]

Liveries, sponsor placement, and so on is all negotiated in contracts before a season begins. It doesn't matter if you think Red Bull should put Honda logos on the car for free or if you think that the drivers and team should skip all the press events with their other sponsors in order to do Honda promotion for free. That's not how this works. These are for profit businesses. Red Bull didn't use the Honda name this season, because Honda didn't want them to. Do you recall that Honda pulled out?

I agree. As far as I know Red Bull Racing (and AlphaTauri) put the large signage on in 2021 as a goodwill gesture to make sure the ongoing supply could be secured.

Verstappen and Perez are still doing all the promotional duties for Honda -- the Civic Type R launch for example and the Honda thanks day too.

Honda asked for the HRC decal on the engine cover to be changed to a Honda one, and RBR and AlphaTauri obliged... I assume that arrangement will continue for 2023.

It would be nice if a Honda logo replaced the HRC decal on the nose of the two teams' cars, but I expect to be underwhelmed as with "Honda RBPT" announcement! It seems most likely it will continue in the same arrangement as during the late 2022 season, better to have Honda in F1 winning races (fingers crossed) in a low-key capacity than not at all.

If Honda decide they want to buy more advertising space on RBR and AT at some point, they will make that decision. RBR are old school garagistes, they will stick a logo on for anyone who pays the monies (hence the Pokerstars decal that appears and disappears depending on the round, likewise Jumbo that only appears at the Dutch GP).

[ispano6]

Apparently some Honda F1 expertise made it's way to the Acura lmdh program: https://www.motorsport.com/imsa/news/ac ... /10411485/

The HPD engine makes a strange noise under braking.

I wonder who the smart guy is!

[Juzh]

Liveries, sponsor placement, and so on is all negotiated in contracts before a season begins. It doesn't matter if you think Red Bull should put Honda logos on the car for free or if you think that the drivers and team should skip all the press events with their other sponsors in order to do Honda promotion for free. That's not how this works. These are for profit businesses. Red Bull didn't use the Honda name this season, because Honda didn't want them to. Do you recall that Honda pulled out?

Your confusion stems from your first post. Your belief that "redbull should just do their own thing and live other car manufacture alone they never being too keen to share credits with anyone when they are winning".

In 2021 RB put honda on their RW for free.

"Free"? Honda was paying every last cent for the entire PU program in 2021 whereas from the start of 2022, RB was paying Honda for it's services and support of the "RBPT" PU.

Even so, there was no official agreement or request by honda to put their name on rw, it was done on RB's own initiative and out of goodwill.

[JordanMugen]

In 2021 RB put honda on their RW for free.

"Free"? Honda was paying every last cent for the entire PU program in 2021 whereas from the start of 2022, RB was paying Honda for it's services and support of the "RBPT" PU.

Even so, there was no official agreement or request by honda to put their name on rw, it was done on RB's own initiative and out of goodwill.

It worked well!

It seems, for whatever reason, Red Bull & AlphaTauri much preferred to use customer Honda power units for 2022 to 2025 than customer Renault power units. So partly by showing goodwill with the advertising signage and Tsunoda race drive, they got their wish approved by the Honda board for continued supply despite Honda's official withdrawal from F1!

[Wazari]

Apparently some Honda F1 expertise made it's way to the Acura lmdh program: https://www.motorsport.com/imsa/news/ac ... /10411485/

The HPD engine makes a strange noise under braking.

I wonder who the smart guy is!

Not me, but a very smart young man raised in Germany who ended up in way my 内弟子. Understood the concept of multi-point center burst ignition and its effects on turbo boost very quickly and the adaptability of it to the larger 2.4L displacement with twin turbos instead of one. This project is the reason I was at Road Atlanta in October instead of Suzuka. I am looking forward to Daytona next month although I really don't like Daytona Beach.

[Alexf1]

Good to hear the knowledge is being transferred to the next generation of engineers. Any gains to expect for next years F1 Honda RBPT PU?

[Wazari]

Trying to optimize the ERS is the main focus at this point for next season.

[AR3-GP]

Trying to optimize the ERS is the main focus at this point for next season.

Consider how superior the system was to others already last year. It's frightening to imagine that it was "unoptimized"

[Wouter]

Trying to optimize the ERS is the main focus at this point for next season.

.
Thank you for this information @Wazari-san. Great to hear.

[RonMexico]

I wonder who the smart guy is!

Not me, but a very smart young man raised in Germany who ended up in way my 内弟子. Understood the concept of multi-point center burst ignition and its effects on turbo boost very quickly and the adaptability of it to the larger 2.4L displacement with twin turbos instead of one. This project is the reason I was at Road Atlanta in October instead of Suzuka. I am looking forward to Daytona next month although I really don't like Daytona Beach.

Always a pleasure to read your posts.

[Bill]

Liveries, sponsor placement, and so on is all negotiated in contracts before a season begins. It doesn't matter if you think Red Bull should put Honda logos on the car for free or if you think that the drivers and team should skip all the press events with their other sponsors in order to do Honda promotion for free. That's not how this works. These are for profit businesses. Red Bull didn't use the Honda name this season, because Honda didn't want them to. Do you recall that Honda pulled out?

Your confusion stems from your first post. Your belief that "redbull should just do their own thing and live other car manufacture alone they never being too keen to share credits with anyone when they are winning".

In 2021 RB put honda on their RW for free.

"Free"? Honda was paying every last cent for the entire PU program in 2021 whereas from the start of 2022, RB was paying Honda for it's services and support of the "RBPT" PU.

if rebull are real smart they should have given Honda full partnership like mclaren when they were "pulling out" but being opportunists they said give us your crown jewel that you have worked so hard to make good after mclaren humiliated you ,then we would could call it our own win races and get credits and be among other great engine builders like merc and ferrari.you can stay in japan drink sake and know you place.maybe they tried to pull stunts with porsche and it didn't go anywhere,maybe porsche wanted to give red bull taste of their own medicine ie build pu we will put our name on it and gets all the glory.
pu are performance differentiators without it that car is going nowhere and without car the pu is going nowhere ,and as such pu builder cant be treated like just a sponsor .red bull have the opportunity to use renault pu again .max would have suffered 6 retirements like alonso therefore no championship .that how honda is important to rbr.

[etusch]

People forget thing fast and don't think deep enough generally. In fact humiliated party are mclaren. They accused Honda first by saying we have one of the best chassis, then they used Renault engine, Mercedes engine which is considered best engine which got 6 or 7 wdc/wcc at that time and mclaren are still nowhere with their one of the best chassis. There are two possibility. They were know their car and engine but choose to blame a normal engine and praise worst chassis. Second they don't have any knowledge about what they are doing. But were talking like they know what they are doing. They just fooled themself. If this period took up seriously mclaren guys will feel severe shame ( if they are not shameless )
If every journalist and F1 fan contend about the whole period at once, who will be blamed, who will be humiliated, it is quite obvious. If journalist would have feel free to say about mclaren what they said about honda, I think mclaren stake would be free but still no one would get them.

[FromGP2toWDC]

Several years since and one fluke win for that lot. RBR in the meantime riding the momentum.