General Honda F1 Topic

[AR3-GP]

The problem with the Honda terrible narrative of the Mclaren years is that Red Bull was managing to win races with a similarly unreliable and underpowered Renault engine. Mclaren was never bagging podiums, poles, or wins at low speed or high altitude like RB was. Their chassis was as much of an issue if not bigger than the engine.

Perhaps they just assumed the PU deficit was larger than it actually was (due to pompousness), and it led them to believe the PU was the main denominator when it turns out that the main problem with the Honda was reliability, and to a lesser extent, the total power level. If you assume that the other PUs are more powerful than they actually are, and ignore the chassis efficiency of those teams, then you be led to the false assumption that the PU is the issue, and not the chassis.

Look at the straightline performance of the Red Bull vs the Mercedes this season. PUs within 10-15hp of one another but you could easily be fooled into believing the Mercedes PU was severely underpowered.

[mrluke]

Towards the end Renault and Honda pu (in the Mclaren) were neck and neck.

There's a comparison in my sig

[Bill]

The problem with the Honda terrible narrative of the Mclaren years is that Red Bull was managing to win races with a similarly unreliable and underpowered Renault engine. Mclaren was never bagging podiums, poles, or wins at low speed or high altitude like RB was. Their chassis was as much of an issue if not bigger than the engine.

Perhaps they just assumed the PU deficit was larger than it actually was (due to pompousness), and it led them to believe the PU was the main denominator when it turns out that the main problem with the Honda was reliability, and to a lesser extent, the total power level. If you assume that the other PUs are more powerful than they actually are, and ignore the chassis efficiency of those teams, then you be led to the false assumption that the PU is the issue, and not the chassis.

Look at the straightline performance of the Red Bull vs the Mercedes this season. PUs within 10-15hp of one another but you could easily be fooled into believing the Mercedes PU was severely underpowered.

looking at hp is misleading its the deployment that make huge difference with those pu .at full you got 160hp so if you could deploy for longer you got advantage ie honda.lewis has alredy admitted merc lost something with move to biofuels.

[mzso]

Honda are first and foremost an engine company ,the world biggest maybe they dont want to do trial and tribulation on car side,they would rather focus their energies on pu

Strangely enough they're moving towards the direction of electric motors.

They are in the same time generator producer.
In the other hand, mazda believes still way to go with ice's, toyota work on hydrogen engines and at next race, they will run a hydrogen fuel powered wrc car.
My opinion is; ice engines will be there always. Countries which put deadline for ice's like 2035 etc are just stupid things.

The hell does "time generator producer" supposed to mean?

Mazda believes in ICE because they were left behind in the dirt by everyone else. And they have nothing electric.
Hydrogen is a bad joke, and even if it was used it would be via FCEVs.

That's pretty much a baseless dream at this point. Don't know how the deadlines will work out, but as soon es EVs become the majority ICE's usage share will quickly and will eventually be banned.

[mzso]

As I have previously said, I can not believe anyone who has driven a EV long enough to get used to it would ever want to go back to ICE driven.

I'm not ready to give up VTEC engines or H-pattern manual transmissions just yet. I don't see how EVs can be as fun, be it through the mountains or pottering about downtown... in either case flicking up or down through the gears, rev-matching etc (similarly I don't understand why so many prefer automatics even with ICEs). In the former case, snatching those redline upshifts with the shift lights that Honda so conveniently provided. But we will see!

Is EV really more fun in a hot hatchback or sportscar than manual transmission plus ICE?

Is there an ETA for the Honda Prolouge (a patented name that is presumed attached to Honda's EV sportscar)? If Honda can get it to market soon, they would (if I'm not mistaken) be the first automaker to produce an entry-level electric sportscar. A great thing, and a superb achievement by Honda if indeed it as fun or even more fun to drive than the MX-5 or the old S2000.

In reality the was majority don't have time or money to waste on any of these things, and a car is just a vehicle to take them places with comfort, practicality, and cost being the main factors. And virtually no-one likes shifting through gears...

[mzso]

Outside of major cities where charging is plentiful, the EV market will never take off in my opinion. The infrastructure isnt there for it, no access to rapid charging so people have to go out their way to charge up quickly - unless they have space at home with a charger. Isnt going to happen in many streets where there is no household vehicle parking and your lucky to get outside your front door most days. Then cables over the streets/pathways. Nah. unrealistic.

I think the its going to be about hydrogen next and we will never see a full EV market - and people certainly arent going to go out their way to sell their ICE which can get them 5-600miles off a tank of fuel.

Off the line performance of EV's might be good (even with a heavy battery) but get them up to speed where power counts and your not getting anywhere very fast (100-200kmh)

The only place where EV's cant be charged is where there's no electricity. Rapid charging is of no significance. Only needed for people going on really long trips.
You have it backward with major cities. People with their own houses are the first to buy EVs and pretty much all charge at home. They way this would logically develop is parking lot charging (not rapid charging) would be more commonplace wherever you park your car when you're at home or at your workplace.

And as fuel prices become even more horrible, people will be leaving behind ICE in masses.

"(100-200kmh)"
It's lucky that that speed is pretty much irrelevant for road vehicles then...

[etusch]

The hell does "time generator producer" supposed to mean?

Mazda believes in ICE because they were left behind in the dirt by everyone else. And they have nothing electric.
Hydrogen is a bad joke, and even if it was used it would be via FCEVs.

That's pretty much a baseless dream at this point. Don't know how the deadlines will work out, but as soon es EVs become the majority ICE's usage share will quickly and will eventually be banned.

If 2 car maker would say me their car is clean, one vw and one mazda, definitely I would believe in mazda and would believe vw is saying another lie.
So I don't know what is base of you opinion. But I think mine is based on sound ground.
It was a shock when electric cars looked good enough at some point but this shock passed and everyone thinks cleaner now. We will see what happened if we are alive. It wont be decided at this thread or any paper fool politicians signed.
By the way, mazda also has hybrid cars. No need to hurry to put to market an unmature electric car for just saying hey look I also have electric car.

[JordanMugen]

As I have previously said, I can not believe anyone who has driven a EV long enough to get used to it would ever want to go back to ICE driven.

I'm not ready to give up VTEC engines or H-pattern manual transmissions just yet. I don't see how EVs can be as fun, be it through the mountains or pottering about downtown... in either case flicking up or down through the gears, rev-matching etc (similarly I don't understand why so many prefer automatics even with ICEs). In the former case, snatching those redline upshifts with the shift lights that Honda so conveniently provided. But we will see!

Is EV really more fun in a hot hatchback or sportscar than manual transmission plus ICE?

Is there an ETA for the Honda Prolouge (a patented name that is presumed attached to Honda's EV sportscar)? If Honda can get it to market soon, they would (if I'm not mistaken) be the first automaker to produce an entry-level electric sportscar. A great thing, and a superb achievement by Honda if indeed it as fun or even more fun to drive than the MX-5 or the old S2000.

In reality the was majority don't have time or money to waste on any of these things, and a car is just a vehicle to take them places with comfort, practicality, and cost being the main factors. And virtually no-one likes shifting through gears...

Boo! Shifting through gears is fun! (Have you tried a Honda shifter, they are usually very tight, precise, light and fun to use, perhaps not like the sloppy, vague ones you are thinking of?)

If Formula One isn't involved in helping promote fun to drive cars for people who want to buy fun to drive cars (as below), then what's the point?





Besides I'm not sure your premise of "waste of money" is correct. A Civic Type R doesn't cost anymore than an ordinary vehicle like a Mercedes GLB250 (in fact the Civic Type R's RRP is 11% lower than a run-of-the-mill GLB250 4MATIC in Australia) and the Civic is just as practical. Indeed, the Civic will probably depreciate significantly less than the GLB, resulting in a lower total ownership cost over time.

[etusch]

These guys race this typeR with one gen older typeR. Older one outpace this new one at drag race and if I don't remember wrong at rolling too. But when it comes to racing on track, new one outpaces older one.
In the same time I read comments from a racing driver about this cars WTCR version, he says this new one has better brakes and better high speed stability.

[mzso]

The hell does "time generator producer" supposed to mean?

Mazda believes in ICE because they were left behind in the dirt by everyone else. And they have nothing electric.
Hydrogen is a bad joke, and even if it was used it would be via FCEVs.

That's pretty much a baseless dream at this point. Don't know how the deadlines will work out, but as soon es EVs become the majority ICE's usage share will quickly and will eventually be banned.

If 2 car maker would say me their car is clean, one vw and one mazda, definitely I would believe in mazda and would believe vw is saying another lie.
So I don't know what is base of you opinion. But I think mine is based on sound ground.
It was a shock when electric cars looked good enough at some point but this shock passed and everyone thinks cleaner now. We will see what happened if we are alive. It wont be decided at this thread or any paper fool politicians signed.
By the way, mazda also has hybrid cars. No need to hurry to put to market an unmature electric car for just saying hey look I also have electric car.

VW vs Mazda has nothing to do with anything.
Your opinions are based on fantasy. Electric cars are already cheaper to use, even in their undeveloped state of today.
Oil squabbles like we have today just brings ICEs doom closer.

[mzso]

Boo! Shifting through gears is fun! (Have you tried a Honda shifter, they are usually very tight, precise, light and fun to use, perhaps not like the sloppy, vague ones you are thinking of?)

It's fun for very few people.

If Formula One isn't involved in helping promote fun to drive cars for people who want to buy fun to drive cars (as below), then what's the point?

Their point is money... For the viewer the point would be entertainment, which often fails.

Besides I'm not sure your premise of "waste of money" is correct. A Civic Type R doesn't cost anymore than an ordinary vehicle like a Mercedes GLB250 (in fact the Civic Type R's RRP is 11% lower than a run-of-the-mill GLB250 4MATIC in Australia) and the Civic is just as practical. Indeed, the Civic will probably depreciate significantly less than the GLB, resulting in a lower total ownership cost over time.

The Mercedes is a luxury car to begin with. Any Mercedes really. Very few people will own one.

[chrisc90]

I wouldn’t class a mercedes as luxury.

Look at the A-class… that’s just a Renault Clio with a different badge on it.

Styling and interiors are mostly bland on even a lot of newer C or E classes in my opinion.

[mzso]

I wouldn’t class a mercedes as luxury.

Look at the A-class… that’s just a Renault Clio with a different badge on it.

Styling and interiors are mostly bland on even a lot of newer C or E classes in my opinion.

And a much bigger price tag.

[etusch]

I wouldn’t class a mercedes as luxury.

Look at the A-class… that’s just a Renault Clio with a different badge on it.

Styling and interiors are mostly bland on even a lot of newer C or E classes in my opinion.

Bmw, the only european car maker I liked, start to made front wheel drive 1 series. They said their 1 series costumers don't know if the car is FWD or RWD. It is not matter if it is fwd or rwd, 4 cylinder or 3.
I don't follow much but think porsche have downsized engine back of some cars. It's not important unless it goes when you open the throttle.

Somethings only make difference if you are a car ethusiast.

The other side of luxury is, for example, if you don't have a car. then you bought one and now you have a car it is + 10 but if you have a car with leather seats, it is not 10+10 = 20, it is not even 10 +1. So when you look a bugatti from this aspect, it is not even a car compared to mazda miata.
if there weren't chairman's who buy mercedes with money of citizens I don't know if mercedes still would be a car maker or were they just a truck maker ?

[Big Tea]

I wouldn’t class a mercedes as luxury.

Look at the A-class… that’s just a Renault Clio with a different badge on it.

Styling and interiors are mostly bland on even a lot of newer C or E classes in my opinion.

Bmw, the only european car maker I liked, start to made front wheel drive 1 series. They said their 1 series costumers don't know if the car is FWD or RWD. It is not matter if it is fwd or rwd, 4 cylinder or 3.
I don't follow much but think porsche have downsized engine back of some cars. It's not important unless it goes when you open the throttle.

Somethings only make difference if you are a car ethusiast.

The other side of luxury is, for example, if you don't have a car. then you bought one and now you have a car it is + 10 but if you have a car with leather seats, it is not 10+10 = 20, it is not even 10 +1. So when you look a bugatti from this aspect, it is not even a car compared to mazda miata.
if there weren't chairman's who buy mercedes with money of citizens I don't know if mercedes still would be a car maker or were they just a truck maker ?

Taxi drivers would probably disagree Neither I or my son or many friends have ever been chairman of anything and re both regular Mercedes drivers and most mercs buying and running costs are little different to a hot hatch or suv