Cadillac racing in F1 with Andretti

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mwillems
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Joined: 04 Sep 2016, 22:11

Cadillac racing in F1 with Andretti

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/64177632

Andretti in F1 is very exciting, I'll be pleased to see more teams on the grid and more spots for talented drivers.

But Cadillac... I didn't see that coming.
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jordanb
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Joined: 29 Nov 2022, 05:37

Re: Cadillac racing in F1 with Andretti

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What F1 don't need is more blue flags. Any non factory team is doomed to be midfield to backmarker. Most drivers that drive for these midfield or backmarkers never makes it to the sharp end of the grid. I don't know what value new teams bring to the table. Existing teams hate it as they are afraid of sharing their F1 earnings.

We have had poorly funded teams cone and go. Even the well funded teams like Toyota and Honda struggled to find success. The top 3 current teams have built infrastructure and talent depth over a very long period of time. Teams like Aston Martin have been investing heavily and poaching people,but are nowhere near being successful to reach the front.

I am very sceptical of these new teams that doesn't seem to have an Idea of the pain they have to go through and the beating the new brand is going to take. Teams that got successful in the last decade had key ingredients like Adrian Newey and Ross Brawn. I don't see that happening to other new teams and that seals the fate

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Big Tea
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Joined: 24 Dec 2017, 20:57

Re: Cadillac racing in F1 with Andretti

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jordanb wrote:
06 Jan 2023, 01:20
What F1 don't need is more blue flags. Any non factory team is doomed to be midfield to backmarker. Most drivers that drive for these midfield or backmarkers never makes it to the sharp end of the grid. I don't know what value new teams bring to the table. Existing teams hate it as they are afraid of sharing their F1 earnings.

We have had poorly funded teams cone and go. Even the well funded teams like Toyota and Honda struggled to find success. The top 3 current teams have built infrastructure and talent depth over a very long period of time. Teams like Aston Martin have been investing heavily and poaching people,but are nowhere near being successful to reach the front.

I am very sceptical of these new teams that doesn't seem to have an Idea of the pain they have to go through and the beating the new brand is going to take. Teams that got successful in the last decade had key ingredients like Adrian Newey and Ross Brawn. I don't see that happening to other new teams and that seals the fate
It depends on why they want to join. If it it just to be seen racing, or if they really believe they can brush aside these amateurs now winning because they are the real thing, an international concern with big money and lots of resources, you are right, they will be flotsam until they call it a day. However, everyone has to start somewhere, and if they start off with a team that know whish way is up, and they are empowered to do it their way, there is no reason why they can not become at least mid field runners quite soon.

There are enough people out there who are capable of starting a team, but it has to be due to a sporting ( cough, yeah, right) decision rather than a boardroom of 'get rich quick' scheme to hit the right note with car buyers.

Maybe there should be some stipulation that 2 years in F2 have to be done first? like superlicence for owners?
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

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Big Tea
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Re: Cadillac racing in F1 with Andretti

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When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

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FW17
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Re: Cadillac racing in F1 with Andretti

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I see parallels between F1 not wanting a strong American team/manufacturer to Ferrari not wanting an Italian driver

everythingisawesome
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Re: Cadillac racing in F1 with Andretti

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mwillems wrote:
05 Jan 2023, 23:54
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/64177632

Andretti in F1 is very exciting, I'll be pleased to see more teams on the grid and more spots for talented drivers.

But Cadillac... I didn't see that coming.
Same with Alpine.. It's just a brand name under General Motors

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Stu
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Re: Cadillac racing in F1 with Andretti

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That is not really true though, when was the last time that GM (with any brand) had a ‘factory’ involvement with F1?
Perspective - Understanding that sometimes the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.

saviour stivala
saviour stivala
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Re: Cadillac racing in F1 with Andretti

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''but Cadillac...I didn't see that coming''. Certainly not with a valve cover plastic sticker.

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mwillems
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Re: Cadillac racing in F1 with Andretti

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everythingisawesome wrote:
06 Jan 2023, 11:45
mwillems wrote:
05 Jan 2023, 23:54
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/64177632

Andretti in F1 is very exciting, I'll be pleased to see more teams on the grid and more spots for talented drivers.

But Cadillac... I didn't see that coming.
Same with Alpine.. It's just a brand name under General Motors
But the brand that you attach to F1 has some significance, right? Alpine make fast cars.

Cadillac is not a brand associated with speed so it seems like they are trying to transform that brand a little, move it away from the boat on wheels image. I couldn't think of many "Less F1-esque" brand than Cadillac for GMs first entry into F1.

I was rather hoping for a Ford entry too, I miss them in the sport.
I'm not taking advice from a cartoon dog

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mwillems
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Joined: 04 Sep 2016, 22:11

Re: Cadillac racing in F1 with Andretti

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jordanb wrote:
06 Jan 2023, 01:20
What F1 don't need is more blue flags. Any non factory team is doomed to be midfield to backmarker. Most drivers that drive for these midfield or backmarkers never makes it to the sharp end of the grid. I don't know what value new teams bring to the table. Existing teams hate it as they are afraid of sharing their F1 earnings.

We have had poorly funded teams cone and go. Even the well funded teams like Toyota and Honda struggled to find success. The top 3 current teams have built infrastructure and talent depth over a very long period of time. Teams like Aston Martin have been investing heavily and poaching people,but are nowhere near being successful to reach the front.

I am very sceptical of these new teams that doesn't seem to have an Idea of the pain they have to go through and the beating the new brand is going to take. Teams that got successful in the last decade had key ingredients like Adrian Newey and Ross Brawn. I don't see that happening to other new teams and that seals the fate
F1 always has a backmarker. They may be at the back for the first season but I expect they have the pedigree to move forward and we have to give them the opportunity rather than assume they will just get in the way, otherwise we'd never get a new team.

What might prove a talking point is how revenues are split between 11 teams and not 10.

https://the-race.com/formula-1/f1-shoul ... ms-horner/
I'm not taking advice from a cartoon dog

-Bandit

BlueCheetah66
BlueCheetah66
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Joined: 13 Jul 2021, 20:23

Re: Cadillac racing in F1 with Andretti

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mwillems wrote:
06 Jan 2023, 13:01
jordanb wrote:
06 Jan 2023, 01:20
What F1 don't need is more blue flags. Any non factory team is doomed to be midfield to backmarker. Most drivers that drive for these midfield or backmarkers never makes it to the sharp end of the grid. I don't know what value new teams bring to the table. Existing teams hate it as they are afraid of sharing their F1 earnings.

We have had poorly funded teams cone and go. Even the well funded teams like Toyota and Honda struggled to find success. The top 3 current teams have built infrastructure and talent depth over a very long period of time. Teams like Aston Martin have been investing heavily and poaching people,but are nowhere near being successful to reach the front.

I am very sceptical of these new teams that doesn't seem to have an Idea of the pain they have to go through and the beating the new brand is going to take. Teams that got successful in the last decade had key ingredients like Adrian Newey and Ross Brawn. I don't see that happening to other new teams and that seals the fate
F1 always has a backmarker. They may be at the back for the first season but I expect they have the pedigree to move forward and we have to give them the opportunity rather than assume they will just get in the way, otherwise we'd never get a new team.

What might prove a talking point is how revenues are split between 11 teams and not 10.

https://the-race.com/formula-1/f1-shoul ... ms-horner/
It annoys me that TP use a reduction in revenue as a reason for not wanting an 11th team. Any new team has to pay $200million which is meant to be split between the rest of the teams. I don't know if its still the case, but don't new teams also have to wait 2 years before receiving a base payment of something like $60 million

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JordanMugen
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Re: Cadillac racing in F1 with Andretti

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mwillems wrote:
06 Jan 2023, 12:41
Cadillac is not a brand associated with speed
:?: Since when? They've released more performance models than BMW or Mercedes in the past 10-15 years if I am not mistaken. ATS-V, CTS-V, CT4-V, CT5-V, CT6-V... the list goes on and on. With both twin-turbo V6 manuals and V8 manuals too.

If anything that is their problem -- they should have ignored the Cadillac engineer's desires to make unprofitable enthusiast cars, and spent development money on a full range of SUVs instead. (IIRC, Cadillac's SUV range is very limited compared to BMW or Mercedes, they have the compact XT4 and the "full-size" Escalade but then there is nothing in-between IIRC, unlike BMW or Mercedes' range of 7 or 8 SUV models including "SUV coupes".)




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mwillems
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Re: Cadillac racing in F1 with Andretti

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JordanMugen wrote:
06 Jan 2023, 19:38
mwillems wrote:
06 Jan 2023, 12:41
Cadillac is not a brand associated with speed
:?: Since when? They've released more performance models than BMW or Mercedes in the past 10-15 years if I am not mistaken. ATS-V, CTS-V, CT4-V, CT5-V, CT6-V... the list goes on and on. With both twin-turbo V6 manuals and V8 manuals too.

If anything that is their problem -- they should have ignored the Cadillac engineer's desires to make unprofitable enthusiast cars, and spent development money on a full range of SUVs instead. (IIRC, Cadillac's SUV range is very limited compared to BMW or Mercedes, they have the compact XT4 and the "full-size" Escalade but then there is nothing in-between IIRC, unlike BMW or Mercedes' range of 7 or 8 SUV models including "SUV coupes".)



I didn't say their cars were slow, just that they are not associated with speed. They are a luxury car brand with a history of being slow and I think that is the way most in the world see them. If they are putting Cadillac into F1 it is probably because they want to change that in the global market and push the brand.

Cadillac releasing performance cars is not going to change anyone's perception of them unless it is advertised as marketed as such which so far in many markets it hasn't had much of a marketing budget.

https://carsalesbase.com/europe-cadillac/

Cadillacs sales in Europe are paltry. They obviously want to change that.
Last edited by mwillems on 06 Jan 2023, 22:24, edited 1 time in total.
I'm not taking advice from a cartoon dog

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taperoo2k
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Re: Cadillac racing in F1 with Andretti

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jordanb wrote:
06 Jan 2023, 01:20
What F1 don't need is more blue flags. Any non factory team is doomed to be midfield to backmarker. Most drivers that drive for these midfield or backmarkers never makes it to the sharp end of the grid. I don't know what value new teams bring to the table. Existing teams hate it as they are afraid of sharing their F1 earnings.
Teams have to start somewhere and tbh it's pretty easy for a successful team to slide down the F1 pecking order. McLaren if it hadn't righted the ship when it did would have been near the back of the grid. At the end of the day it's down to the FIA and Commercial Rights holder to sort out team entries and prize money.

As for Andretti and GM? Serious people who know what Motor racing entails backed up by one of the biggest car manufacturers in the world. It could go horribly wrong or they could become wildly successful. I doubt many people thought Red Bull would become as successful as they have been, even with Newey on board.
We have had poorly funded teams cone and go. Even the well funded teams like Toyota and Honda struggled to find success. The top 3 current teams have built infrastructure and talent depth over a very long period of time. Teams like Aston Martin have been investing heavily and poaching people,but are nowhere near being successful to reach the front.
That is the nature of F1, teams come and go. As for Aston Martin? It can take several years for investment and staff to pay off on the race track. McLaren is ahead in that process and we'll find out in the next couple of years if the decisions made at McLaren pay off or not.

I am very sceptical of these new teams that doesn't seem to have an Idea of the pain they have to go through and the beating the new brand is going to take. Teams that got successful in the last decade had key ingredients like Adrian Newey and Ross Brawn. I don't see that happening to other new teams and that seals the fate
Nothing is guaranteed in life or F1 for that matter. Either Andretti becomes successful or they don't. If they want to take on the challenge that is F1 then have at it. The more teams the better. Williams looks ripe for a takeover by a manufacturer that wants an easier entry into F1. The truth is F1 is becoming attractive again to big manufacturers and that shouldn't be scoffed at.

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MIKEY_!
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Re: Cadillac racing in F1 with Andretti

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Lots of speculation about which PU they plan to use, some say they'll continue with the deal Andretti supposedly already had with Renault, others say they'll use Honda PUs.

https://au.motorsport.com/f1/news/honda ... /10417562/

https://www.grandprix.com/news/honda-se ... gines.html

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/171248/a ... lpine.html