2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[DGP123]

Tbh, Mercedes strategy has been appalling and in need of freshening up for some time. Vowles and his team were exposed on numerous occasions last year, so I’m not sure this is a blow to Mercedes.

As with anyone, the desire and temptation to take on a new challenge/project is always tough to turn down. Wish him well at Williams.

[chrisc90]

Mercedes have very rarely been great at strategy.

Most of it is hidden by a significantly faster car in the hybrid era.

Bring a competitor in to fight
For position and the mistakes happen

[214270]

Good info about the strategy team as it’s functioned recently. It doesn’t seem like much adaptation will be reqd.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... 4StHv.html

[jordanb]

I am surprised it's James that is taking up the opportunity to be a team principal. I was thinking, at some point, Shovlin would move out as he has been involved in core race engineering than James. May be if Williams is serious about revival, they can get Shov as a Technical Director.

[pursue_one's]

That Vowles was making a career change was foreshadowed last season. Only no one knew then that he was not slipping into a different role within Mercedes, but switching teams straight away. "I've been carrying the idea of managing a team around with me for years." With Capito's retirement, the opportunity opened up at Williams.

Vowles stopped showing up at the command post midway through the season, suddenly following the races in the Mercedes garage. A successor as strategy director has already been set up internally. The Mercedes tactics department is well staffed with nine people to absorb the departure, Wolff believes. "Our strength at Mercedes is to spread the load on several shoulders. We are a dynamic organization that will manage the succession in good time." He added: "James has continued to build the capabilities of our strategy team in Brackley, and we have a fantastic group of talented strategists who will continue their excellent work in the years ahead."

James Vowles ersetzt Jost Capito
https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... chef-2023/

[Big Tea]

I think Vowles comes over as a man who inspires leadership and confidence. As long as he brings the right people in below him, I think he could be a successful TP

[jordanb]

I think Vowles comes over as a man who inspires leadership and confidence. As long as he brings the right people in below him, I think he could be a successful TP

I hope he doesn't become another case of Paddy Lowe.

[Big Tea]

I think Vowles comes over as a man who inspires leadership and confidence. As long as he brings the right people in below him, I think he could be a successful TP

I hope he doesn't become another case of Paddy Lowe.

As I said, I see it as who is actually in the executive positions that matters. He will no doubt be in a management role and have to chose who actually gets things done and how. Only time wil tell

[AR3-GP]

What the.....

[De Jokke]

At first I thought: April fools' day has come early in 2023.

It seems like a deflation at Mercedes.
I know they prefer to fill the holes with internal people (which is a good thing to promote internal hard working people) but is it me or does anyone else has the feeling that they barely attempt to fill in the holes by recruiting new people (from other teams/elsewhere)? This acquiescence is worrying to say the least. Especially from Toto. But he probably knows what he's doing. I sure hope so.

[AR3-GP]

I am surprised it's James that is taking up the opportunity to be a team principal. I was thinking, at some point, Shovlin would move out as he has been involved in core race engineering than James. May be if Williams is serious about revival, they can get Shov as a Technical Director.

Maybe Shovlin is happy where he is and with the people around him.

I'm only speculating here, but I'm willing to bet that Toto pushed James Vowles to take the role at Williams. A way to disguise a "sacking" as a "promotion" that fell into Toto's lap once Capito left.

A lot of fans of Mercedes have pointed to Vowles as a weakness for Mercedes. Do you really think Toto would never try and improve that situation?

[atanatizante]

I know it's wishful thinking (in the case of the 2023 scenario) but indulge me and say if that is pure coincidence or not the following F1 history:

1. The 2006 F1 championship vs. the 2021 one

In 2006 - ALO (the young pretender) at Renault and SCH (the old established champion) in a Ferrari was fiercely battling, with the former having the upper hand in the first part of the season due to his car`s being faster. Then in the second part, Ferrari has the car speed superiority and there is an incredible recovery from the latter driver until his engine blows in the almost last race (in fact it was the penultimate race at Suzuka). So the end of the championship was down to a mechanical reason rather than a sports one.

In 2021 - the same story between a young gun - VER in an RB car is battling hard with HAM, an established champion who drives a car which was winning the last championships (4 in Ferrari`s case and 7 in Merc`s case). In the first part, RB's car is faster, then after Silverstone Merc`s car has the edge and HAM gets momentum and recovers the points lost until the last race when the former driver wins due to a discretional race director's decision rather than in a sportive manner.

2. The 2005 F1 championship vs. the 2022 one

In 2005 - ALO in the same Renault car is battling with RAI in a faster McLaren car and also with SCH who was running the same Ferrari car. But this time FIA was enforcing the one-tyre for the entire race rule in order to stop Ferrar`s strake of championship wins. Thus the Renault and McLaren cars which were running on Michelin tyres has the upper hand over the struggling Ferrari car running on Bridgestone tyres. In the first part of the season, RAI has a superior car and take advantage but due to poor reliability loses the championship to ALO, with a struggling SCH who won just a single race - the infamous Indianapolis race.

In 2022 - there are major car regulation changes (maybe the biggest one in F1 history) and LEC (aka RAI) in a Ferrari car (aka McLaren of 2005) has a faster car in the first part of the season than VER (aka ALO) RB car (aka Renault 2005) who takes advantage and win easily the championship from both poor Ferrari`s car reliability but also from the car updates that were brought of the second part of the season. HAM is struggling with a Merc car that has many issues due to the new regs and is ending with a distant 6th place in the WDC.

3. The 2004 F1 championship vs. the 2023 one

In 2004 - there was a total domination season for the Ferrari car and SCH driver superiority with a distant 3rd Renault finishing in WCC and a 4th place for ALO ...

Now 2023 could be the same as in 2004, this time around both HAM & W14 has a "tour de force" season with VER/RB car needing to recognize that they are now the 3rd force in the championship after LEC & Ferrari car.

Therefore, for the sake of the fun feel free to fill in the blanks on what you think it`ll happen ...

[chrisc90]

Maybe swap RB with Ferrari and might be closer mixed.

I really cant see RB becoming 3rd best after carrying over much of their car from 2022. That would be like a .600-.750 loss for the RB, so even if that was split between the two thats a .350 loss and gain for each time, and then you have 2 cars that are equally matched.

[jordanb]

I know it's wishful thinking (in the case of the 2023 scenario) but indulge me and say if that is pure coincidence or not the following F1 history:

1. The 2006 F1 championship vs. the 2021 one

In 2006 - ALO (the young pretender) at Renault and SCH (the old established champion) in a Ferrari was fiercely battling, with the former having the upper hand in the first part of the season due to his car`s being faster. Then in the second part, Ferrari has the car speed superiority and there is an incredible recovery from the latter driver until his engine blows in the almost last race (in fact it was the penultimate race at Suzuka). So the end of the championship was down to a mechanical reason rather than a sports one.

In 2021 - the same story between a young gun - VER in an RB car is battling hard with HAM, an established champion who drives a car which was winning the last championships (4 in Ferrari`s case and 7 in Merc`s case). In the first part, RB's car is faster, then after Silverstone Merc`s car has the edge and HAM gets momentum and recovers the points lost until the last race when the former driver wins due to a discretional race director's decision rather than in a sportive manner.

2. The 2005 F1 championship vs. the 2022 one

In 2005 - ALO in the same Renault car is battling with RAI in a faster McLaren car and also with SCH who was running the same Ferrari car. But this time FIA was enforcing the one-tyre for the entire race rule in order to stop Ferrar`s strake of championship wins. Thus the Renault and McLaren cars which were running on Michelin tyres has the upper hand over the struggling Ferrari car running on Bridgestone tyres. In the first part of the season, RAI has a superior car and take advantage but due to poor reliability loses the championship to ALO, with a struggling SCH who won just a single race - the infamous Indianapolis race.

In 2022 - there are major car regulation changes (maybe the biggest one in F1 history) and LEC (aka RAI) in a Ferrari car (aka McLaren of 2005) has a faster car in the first part of the season than VER (aka ALO) RB car (aka Renault 2005) who takes advantage and win easily the championship from both poor Ferrari`s car reliability but also from the car updates that were brought of the second part of the season. HAM is struggling with a Merc car that has many issues due to the new regs and is ending with a distant 6th place in the WDC.

3. The 2004 F1 championship vs. the 2023 one

In 2004 - there was a total domination season for the Ferrari car and SCH driver superiority with a distant 3rd Renault finishing in WCC and a 4th place for ALO ...

Now 2023 could be the same as in 2004, this time around both HAM & W14 has a "tour de force" season with VER/RB car needing to recognize that they are now the 3rd force in the championship after LEC & Ferrari car.

Therefore, for the sake of the fun feel free to fill in the blanks on what you think it`ll happen ...

The correct order of comparison is, 2004 Ferrari is the 2020 Mercedes. 2006 Ferrari is the 2021 Mercedes. 2005 Ferrari is 2022 Mercedes. Both had rule changes.

Just one year mixed in between. If anything, Mercedes can expect a 2006 in 2023 with regards to second year of new rules. Where after having flopped in the first year, they can expect recovery like Ferrari in 2006.

Historically, a car that got it right in a new set of regulations, retains the advantage for another season or two. In exceptional circumstances, much longer. BrawnGP was an outlier due it it's circumstances. But there was Red Bull, which although didn't win in 2009, but went on to build on the rule changes advantage.

F2004 Ferrari had an evolutionary basis, much like W11. 2004 was the last year of V10s. Similar was 2020 which should have been the last year of a rule set. But pandemic postponed the 2021 to 2022. A car that was regarded as the best to have ever been designed up until that point (F2004 and W11), lost the dominant edge in the following year. Add RB9 to that list as it was the last of that regulatory era and like those other two, was a dominant beast.

[Venturiation]

Here is some parts of the interview with mike elliot for those interested about W13 problems


The concept of the Mercedes leaves a lot of free space on the underbody. Was that part of the problem?

Elliott: Not really. It made us more headaches that we can get the ground stiff enough and that it does not bend too hard at high speeds. But we have now solved this.


In the wind tunnel, the Mercedes was the fastest car. This has not been confirmed on the track. Do you still trust your tools?

Elliott: The wind tunnel gave us the right answers where we can find lap time. What we couldn't do was how we use the downforce and how it works with the rest of the car.

Most of the lap time is generated under the car. Does the shape of the side boxes matter?

Elliott: By far the most important part of the car is the profile on the bottom. The front wing determines how the output is distributed over the car. The disguise has a similar meaning. Even if our car looks completely different from the outside, its shape has nothing to do with our problems. As a former aerodynamicist, you first look at how your aerodynamics should work. What the flow field should look like to get what I want. It is never about a part of the car visible from the outside.


What were the other hidden problems?

Elliott: If I betray them now, then the competition would know too well about the solutions we have found. The simplest answer is: The car we have made available to our drivers is not the car we wanted. The drivers reported that it is difficult to drive. And we now know why.


How many of the problems that occurred at the beginning of the season were solved in the end?

Elliott: That's hard to answer. At the beginning of the season, we had to deal with aerodynamically generated bouncing, like everyone else. This has covered the real problems of the car. With our upgrade in Barcelona, we got rid of most of the aero bouncing. The bouncing, which was still there in the end, was triggered by ground waves. This is innate to these cars, which are just above the road.

At first, we couldn't explain why it always looked different from route to route. Later, our predictions became more accurate. Our simulations gave us a fairly precise statement about which route is good or bad for us. We now also have a good theory of what we have to do so that next season doesn't happen to us again. This gives us confidence over the winter. But unfortunately you never know everything in Formula 1.


Mercedes started in 2022 with an unusual car. Were you surprised that you were the only ones who chose this concept?

Elliott: Not really. We were surprised that no one else found this loophole. If you have gone this way, it is very difficult to copy something else.

To what extent did this concept contribute to the problems you had to deal with later?

Elliott: We only have a partial view of things. We only see what our car does. It is difficult to judge how the other concepts react. We have tried to understand the problems and get into a position to predict the performance fluctuations from route to route. It has nothing to do with the shape of the side boxes, but more with how we designed the car and what goals we had set ourselves.