Mercedes W14 Speculation Thread

[Venturiation]

When did you have to sign off on the first major components of the 2023 car?

Elliott: The chassis and the larger parts of the car were approved in mid-October. The fairing much later. The devil is in the details. We're building the aerodynamics around the rough framework of the car.


Did the bouncing come as a surprise to you?

Elliott: We knew that the Groundeffect cars of the past had this phenomenon, and we also talked about it in the design phase. We didn't expect there to be any problems at all, however, none of the simulations suggested how severe the problem would be. I think everyone has had that experience. It's very difficult to recreate the problem in the wind tunnel, and in CFD simulation it would be very expensive to create a computational model for it. That's why we didn't use the resources allowed by the regulations in CFD to simulate the bouncing.


How much development time did bouncing cost you?

Elliott: Normally, you identify your car's problems during winter testing and try to solve them by the first race. This time was different. Red Bull probably solved the problem the quickest. They found a solution at the end of testing. Others thought they had solved it, and then it came back. In our case, it was so dominant that we couldn't take care of different areas of the car at all.Normally, you're trying to not only find downforce, but also give your car a characteristic through the corners so the drivers can balance it how they want. That work is usually done during winter testing. That's when you work on setups. We had to postpone that. And once we solved the bouncing, we suddenly found there were other problems we had to solve.


In 2023, will you focus more on a larger working window than on maximum downforce?

Elliott: Our goals will be different than they were in 2022. Some of the problems stemmed from what aerodynamic goals we had set. We've already made changes, and there will be more. We hope that's enough to get us back to the front in 2023.


What were the other hidden problems?

Elliott: If I revealed them now, the competition would know too well about the solutions we found. The simplest answer is this: The car we gave our drivers is not the car we wanted. Drivers reported that it was difficult to drive. And we now know why.


Like many cars at the start of the season, the Mercedes was heavily overweight. What role did that play in the balance?

Elliott: If we're honest with ourselves, we didn't deliver what we wanted. Weight wasn't our biggest problem. Everyone knows how much lap time you find when your car gets lighter. We can always solve this problem, at the latest over this winter. It was much more important to understand the other problems. If we didn't do that, we would experience the same thing next season.

interview at the end of the 2022 season.

- Translate DeepL

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... interview/

He seems too positive , either W14 is a rocketship or another W13

[chrisc90]

Why is everywhere still reporting the new fuel?

Considering the fuel is locked in until 2025 bringing a new fuel to the table is against the rules

[Blackout]

New cars are always kept under wraps until release dates or even pre-season testing, but Autoracing has already been warning since the second half of 2022 that the Mercedes W14 will be an evolution of the W13.

By Mercedes' standards, the W13 was very bad last year and won only one race and took one pole in 2022.

Mercedes will make a change to the sidepod, not because of the kicks, but because of the great drag that the complete absence of the part generates on the rear wheels. The car will now have a sidepod that will be a middle ground between the 'zeropod' concept and the philosophy adopted by Red Bull. Mercedes will also have a different gearbox, "for a different arrangement of the critical rear suspension components."

"The big changes to the W14 will be in the floor and suspensions, especially in the rear, " a source confided to us. The car will get faster on the straight as well, since it will have less drag, the UP Spec 3 will finally go full track, and Petronas is developing a new fuel to "improve fuel efficiency" and "optimize combustion."

https://www.autoracing.com.br/saiba-o-q ... -mercedes/

How could a sidepod be "a middle ground between Mercedes zero-pod and RB pod

A compact sidepod with lateral extension like the Mclaren update in Barcelona? or wide sidopds, with a huge trench between sidepod and car like Alpine

[Venturiation]

New cars are always kept under wraps until release dates or even pre-season testing, but Autoracing has already been warning since the second half of 2022 that the Mercedes W14 will be an evolution of the W13.

By Mercedes' standards, the W13 was very bad last year and won only one race and took one pole in 2022.

Mercedes will make a change to the sidepod, not because of the kicks, but because of the great drag that the complete absence of the part generates on the rear wheels. The car will now have a sidepod that will be a middle ground between the 'zeropod' concept and the philosophy adopted by Red Bull. Mercedes will also have a different gearbox, "for a different arrangement of the critical rear suspension components."

"The big changes to the W14 will be in the floor and suspensions, especially in the rear, " a source confided to us. The car will get faster on the straight as well, since it will have less drag, the UP Spec 3 will finally go full track, and Petronas is developing a new fuel to "improve fuel efficiency" and "optimize combustion."

https://www.autoracing.com.br/saiba-o-q ... -mercedes/

Why this fuel rumors again , when the fuel is frozen since march 2022

[AR3-GP]

New cars are always kept under wraps until release dates or even pre-season testing, but Autoracing has already been warning since the second half of 2022 that the Mercedes W14 will be an evolution of the W13.

By Mercedes' standards, the W13 was very bad last year and won only one race and took one pole in 2022.

Mercedes will make a change to the sidepod, not because of the kicks, but because of the great drag that the complete absence of the part generates on the rear wheels. The car will now have a sidepod that will be a middle ground between the 'zeropod' concept and the philosophy adopted by Red Bull. Mercedes will also have a different gearbox, "for a different arrangement of the critical rear suspension components."

"The big changes to the W14 will be in the floor and suspensions, especially in the rear, " a source confided to us. The car will get faster on the straight as well, since it will have less drag, the UP Spec 3 will finally go full track, and Petronas is developing a new fuel to "improve fuel efficiency" and "optimize combustion."

https://www.autoracing.com.br/saiba-o-q ... -mercedes/

Why this fuel rumors again , when the fuel is frozen since march 2022

There is no cited source for any of the information in that article so I wouldn't worry about it.

[Venturiation]

https://www.autoracing.com.br/saiba-o-q ... -mercedes/

Why this fuel rumors again , when the fuel is frozen since march 2022

There is no cited source for any of the information in that article so I wouldn't worry about it.

Most said the same thing about the zero sidepods and 1 second faster in the wind tunnel rumors that turned out to be true
Could there be someone leaking info from inside?

If you watch the interview for the 2022 review season the chief of HPP also talks about improving the 2023 engine with fuel by petonas

[pursue_one's]

Why this fuel rumors again , when the fuel is frozen since march 2022

There is no cited source for any of the information in that article so I wouldn't worry about it.

Most said the same thing about the zero sidepods and 1 second faster in the wind tunnel rumors that turned out to be true
Could there be someone leaking info from inside?

If you watch the interview for the 2022 review season the chief of HPP also talks about improving the 2023 engine with fuel by petonas

Adauto Silva have insider information from mercedes.

[chrisc90]

Why this fuel rumors again , when the fuel is frozen since march 2022

There is no cited source for any of the information in that article so I wouldn't worry about it.

Most said the same thing about the zero sidepods and 1 second faster in the wind tunnel rumors that turned out to be true
Could there be someone leaking info from inside?

If you watch the interview for the 2022 review season the chief of HPP also talks about improving the 2023 engine with fuel by petonas

Would love to see evidence of where the zero pod design was faster in reality or even the regulations where fuel specification can be changed after it was homologated in 1st March 2022

[AR3-GP]

Why this fuel rumors again , when the fuel is frozen since march 2022

There is no cited source for any of the information in that article so I wouldn't worry about it.

Most said the same thing about the zero sidepods and 1 second faster in the wind tunnel rumors that turned out to be true
Could there be someone leaking info from inside?

If you watch the interview for the 2022 review season the chief of HPP also talks about improving the 2023 engine with fuel by petonas

I would have to assume you misheard because the regulations do not permit changes to the fuel. I'm really quite unsure why this rumor keeps coming up.

Perhaps Mercedes will be protested at each GP that they use their new fuel.

[Venturiation]

There is no cited source for any of the information in that article so I wouldn't worry about it.

Most said the same thing about the zero sidepods and 1 second faster in the wind tunnel rumors that turned out to be true
Could there be someone leaking info from inside?

If you watch the interview for the 2022 review season the chief of HPP also talks about improving the 2023 engine with fuel by petonas

Would love to see evidence of where the zero pod design was faster in reality or even the regulations where fuel specification can be changed after it was homologated in 1st March 2022

Mike elliot confirmed in the interview that the W13 was the fastest car in the wind tunnel
He also confirmed that the sidepods are not causing any issue , but people focus on that because that’s only what they see

The problem is the car was built to run close to the ground, when the raised the height everything fall apart because by raising the car you will add alot of drag and lose downforce, and with thta downforce lost you need to add rear wing wich adds even more drag

[chrisc90]

So why wasnt the car fast in tracks like Monza? Where downforce is minimal, same with the rear wing.

[Venturiation]

There is no cited source for any of the information in that article so I wouldn't worry about it.

Most said the same thing about the zero sidepods and 1 second faster in the wind tunnel rumors that turned out to be true
Could there be someone leaking info from inside?

If you watch the interview for the 2022 review season the chief of HPP also talks about improving the 2023 engine with fuel by petonas

I would have to assume you misheard because the regulations do not permit changes to the fuel. I'm really quite unsure why this rumor keeps coming up.

Perhaps Mercedes will be protested at each GP that they use their new fuel.

I know fuel is frozen and can’t be changed, but just wondering why we hear these rumours, if there is noise it has to come from somewhere


And that Mercedes didn’t introduce the new Ers upgrade because it didn’t work with the W13 chassis

Hywel did talk about how important it is to match the pu with the chassis perfectly

[Vanja #66]

W13 was never 1s faster, since WT conditions failed miserably to match the reality. It was designed to run way too close to the ground. Overexposed floor (consequence of zero pods) then amplified the poor side of the concept which was already compromised by always running higher and with poor floor performance.

The team then whined and whined about bouncing and "safety" and they got the rule changes that help them and weaken RB and Ferrari. If W14 has even slighlty wider sidepods in the rear even with rule changes, it will be a testament to how bad W13 concept was.

[Venturiation]

W13 was never 1s faster, since WT conditions failed miserably to match the reality. It was designed to run way too close to the ground. Overexposed floor (consequence of zero pods) then amplified the poor side of the concept which was already compromised by always running higher and with poor floor performance.

The team then whined and whined about bouncing and "safety" and they got the rule changes that help them and weaken RB and Ferrari. If W14 has even slighlty wider sidepods in the rear even with rule changes, it will be a testament to how bad W13 concept was.

Mike elliot did say in the interview that the exposed floor doesn’t change much same for the sidepods, people are focusing too much on that

[Venturiation]

Here is some parts of the interview with mike elliot for those interested


The concept of the Mercedes leaves a lot of free space on the underbody. Was that part of the problem?

Elliott: Not really. It made us more headaches that we can get the ground stiff enough and that it does not bend too hard at high speeds. But we have now solved this.


In the wind tunnel, the Mercedes was the fastest car. This has not been confirmed on the track. Do you still trust your tools?

Elliott: The wind tunnel gave us the right answers where we can find lap time. What we couldn't do was how we use the downforce and how it works with the rest of the car.

Most of the lap time is generated under the car. Does the shape of the side boxes matter?

Elliott: By far the most important part of the car is the profile on the bottom. The front wing determines how the output is distributed over the car. The disguise has a similar meaning. Even if our car looks completely different from the outside, its shape has nothing to do with our problems. As a former aerodynamicist, you first look at how your aerodynamics should work. What the flow field should look like to get what I want. It is never about a part of the car visible from the outside.


What were the other hidden problems?

Elliott: If I betray them now, then the competition would know too well about the solutions we have found. The simplest answer is: The car we have made available to our drivers is not the car we wanted. The drivers reported that it is difficult to drive. And we now know why.


How many of the problems that occurred at the beginning of the season were solved in the end?

Elliott: That's hard to answer. At the beginning of the season, we had to deal with aerodynamically generated bouncing, like everyone else. This has covered the real problems of the car. With our upgrade in Barcelona, we got rid of most of the aero bouncing. The bouncing, which was still there in the end, was triggered by ground waves. This is innate to these cars, which are just above the road.

At first, we couldn't explain why it always looked different from route to route. Later, our predictions became more accurate. Our simulations gave us a fairly precise statement about which route is good or bad for us. We now also have a good theory of what we have to do so that next season doesn't happen to us again. This gives us confidence over the winter. But unfortunately you never know everything in Formula 1.


Mercedes started in 2022 with an unusual car. Were you surprised that you were the only ones who chose this concept?

Elliott: Not really. We were surprised that no one else found this loophole. If you have gone this way, it is very difficult to copy something else.

To what extent did this concept contribute to the problems you had to deal with later?

Elliott: We only have a partial view of things. We only see what our car does. It is difficult to judge how the other concepts react. We have tried to understand the problems and get into a position to predict the performance fluctuations from route to route. It has nothing to do with the shape of the side boxes, but more with how we designed the car and what goals we had set ourselves.